Has Opeth Created Its Own Cliche?

[Draehl]

This was one of the proposed questions in the ask Opeth thread...

What do you think? Have Opeth really created their own cliche/genre? What about this concept in general?

Opeth still stick to the same style...soft/heavy in the same song. But this essentially is what Opeth is. Extremely beautiful music contrasting with the brutal. I think if they deviated from this "formula" too much they would cease to be Opeth...I mean where exactly do they have to go other than this? Of course they can lean folksy/prog/blackmetal/whatever. But ultimately Opeth has their own sound and as long as Mike is writing it will always be recognized as Opeth.

I'm wondering what you all think of musical evolution...it seems like musicians can't catch a break. Slayer gets criticized for not changing at all while Metallica get accused of changing too much. Where do you draw the line?

 

[Nico]

You've got to keep in mind that Opeth werent the first band to use heavy/soft dynamics. Bathory probably started this, and a few other bands had also done it before Opeth came about.

As far as cliche's go... well it's mostly full of shit. Cliche would describe something that's been used so much it's become commonplace, thus no longer different or unique. Opeth are still the only band who play this 'particular' style, though there are obviously bands that imitate Opeth to a certain extent (Farmakon, Dark Suns, etc). And there's no doubt that Opeth's style hasnt saturated the metal scene, so it's still quite unique as far as I can tell. It's not like we're talking about melodic death metal or anything.

 

[Ermz]

I've suggested the cliche thing a few times in the past. I think they've certainly created one. They've essentially pidgeonholed themselves into a style of their own making...

As soon as someone mentions Opeth, you instantly think 'ah yes the soft/heavy dynamic'. Other bands may well have done this before Opeth, but it had never stood out in a fashion that it could actually define who the band is. This dynamic IS Opeth and it IS what they've come to be known as, and it IS what fans expect Opeth to do with their albums.

 

[Draehl]

Yea I was coming more from where Moonlapse is...more a cliche for themselves I guess?

Not necessarily a bad thing mind you

 

[spigot]

*yawn*...what...yeah right. That too.

 

[Demoke]

Yes, opeth have created their own sound / style. It's true that other bands have done the heavy / soft formula before but no band on earth, as far as my knowledge goes, has ever clinched this typical mix of everything which is Opeth. Of course, the fans expect more of that in forthcoming albums; at least, I do.

 

[Demilich]

I think that Mikael would be skeptical of changing his writing style in Opeth now because the dynamics and songlengths are what makes Opeth who they are. I can't see Opeth shortening down to 4-6 minute songs and changing their style completely. But why not? Other bands have made pretty radical changes.

 

[{**9**}*CaptainQuark*]

I guess all bands develop. Some do it because they are bored with who and what they are, while others do it for commercial reasons.

Was Damnation a development? An experiment? An aberration? Will the next album be similar? Will it return to the "cliché"? Will it be something completely different again?

Whatever it is, I'm sure Mikael will do his utmost and, even if we don't necessarily agree with it, he'll have a damn good reason for his decision.

 

[FRUGiHOYi]

Damnation was an experiment and I think the next album will be something pretty different from everythign they've done in the past.

 

[arpkane]

Those of you who listen to any classical music at all should realise that the concept of "dynamics" is not new at all...If you listen to every Opeth album, though there are similar elements, such as the progressive nature, and Mikael's unique songwriting style, each album is different...it would take a mind numbing amount of musical ignorance and stupidity for someone to argue that Damnation and Deliverance aren't different from any of Opeth's prior albums, including their most recent before them, Blackwater Park. There is no "niche" or "style"....there is Opeth. Period.

 

[AjDeath]

Those of you who listen to any classical music at all should realise that the concept of "dynamics" is not new at all...If you listen to every Opeth album, though there are similar elements, such as the progressive nature, and Mikael's unique songwriting style, each album is different...it would take a mind numbing amount of musical ignorance and stupidity for someone to argue that Damnation and Deliverance aren't different from any of Opeth's prior albums, including their most recent before them, Blackwater Park. There is no "niche" or "style"....there is Opeth. Period.

I think the only records that sound even remotely close in style and sound are Orchid and Morningrise ( I think we all know the reason for this, no?) Every album after has had it's distinctive style and atmosphere. Here's hoping they continue in this vein.

 

[dorian gray]

good thread. im surprised theres not more posts here.
this is an interesting question. Elek has pretty much narrowed his/her idea of cliche to opeths use of alternating soft/heavy dynamics (is there a better word for this?). in that sense, it *does* seem that opeth have overused that compositional technique. sometimes i listen to them and think, "how many times can they do this?"
yet, thats a big part of mikes writing style and he does it well. opeth does other things very well also so i wouldnt say they have reached a point where they are cliche.
i think a good sub-question for this thread is: does opeth go overboard with the alternating soft/heavy style?
my opinion, especially after deliverance, is yes. i think more albums with that style *will* render them a cliche. but thats yet to be determined.

 

[dorian gray]

the above post couldve been written as: no, but theyre getting pretty close.

 

[Nico]

i think a good sub-question for this thread is: does opeth go overboard with the alternating soft/heavy style?
my opinion, especially after deliverance, is yes.

In Deliverance, a lot of the mellow bits seem to be thrown in there just because no Opeth song should be without dynamics. They don't seem well implemented, nor do they contribute to the flow of the songs... so in that respect, the Opeth cliche may have stopped that album from being better than it could have been.


Just my opinion, mind you.

 

[dorian gray]

^i like deliverance but i agree with you.

"so, in that respect, the opeth cliche may...."
so you think they *have* reached a point of cliche?

 

[Nico]

Okay, not cliche... I meant "formula".

 

[unknown]

I agree that some of the acoustic er soft passages in Deliverance were pretty random.

it's also kind of...interesting I guess...that whenever a band comes along that uses the heavy/soft style (heavy then acoustic) they automatically get compared to Opeth. This happens a lot with Agalloch and a few other bands.

 

[Ermz]

Those of you who listen to any classical music at all should realise that the concept of "dynamics" is not new at all...If you listen to every Opeth album, though there are similar elements, such as the progressive nature, and Mikael's unique songwriting style, each album is different...it would take a mind numbing amount of musical ignorance and stupidity for someone to argue that Damnation and Deliverance aren't different from any of Opeth's prior albums, including their most recent before them, Blackwater Park. There is no "niche" or "style"....there is Opeth. Period.

Classical music dynamics were generally formulaic and hence not very 'dynamic' at all. The word in context of 'Opeth' takes on an entire new meaning, musically.

What the majority of us argue, when we pose the 'cliche' idea, is about Opeth's predictability in terms of structure. This structure, even though it had started out as something chaotic and seemingly completely random, has been reiterated so many times by the band that it has become a predictable style in itself. This is what we mean when we categorize Opeth, structurally.

So whilst the music has obviously changed to a degree, the structures have remained relatively the same ever since MAYH. I mean Orchid set the precedent. 'We're going to play really heavy shit, and when we hit the climax, we'll decrescendo down to a soft acoustic part'. That is the Opeth fundamental and it is something they have retained for over a decade in their music.

 

[{**9**}*CaptainQuark*]

Regardless of the "dynamics", "formulae" and "clichés", surely the most important question to ask is: "Do we like what Opeth does?"

Answer: "Hell yes!"

 

[Ermz]

uhm, it would be if that was the thread's topic