Steve Wilson and Opeth

[deliverance]

just watched the doc. yet again. my thoughts:

after Mike's recording of the "haaaa-aaaaaaah" vocal in Master's Apprentices, SW says something around the lines of: i'm just wondering if I should add my voice. mikael interjects: YES!
don't get me wrong, i think the dual vocal by the two of them sounds great; and yes, he's a producer, but, he does seem like an arrogant guy in numerous parts of the doc..

during the same part in MA, Wilson starts doodling on the electric, playing an improvised lead that doesn't even belong there at all. it's like..dude, leave the PT solos for PT. (I do like PT, but..c'mon)

When SW is recording the mellotron for a Damnation track, afterwards Mike says BOO-TEE-FULL. SW jokingly says we're gonna have the mellotron everyfuckingwhere, I can tell. Then you're gonna listen to the album, and be like shit I'm fucking sick of that mellotron, why did I put it on everything?
...It's Mike's choice, where he wants instruments and where. SW can surely advise, but I mean, a statement like that?

Mike states how he writes very well musically/lyrically while under pressure, in the studio. SW follows up that: Mikes working on lyrics/vocal ideas as we go along, and that's good for me, because that means i can get involved in that as well (notice the ME. not it's good for the overall sound or, for the band)


I do not dislike SW, but seeing it again struck me a different way. Maybe I'm overreacting, I'm not sure.

 

[NFU]

just watched the doc. yet again. my thoughts:


during the same part in MA, Wilson starts doodling on the electric, playing an improvised lead that doesn't even belong there at all. it's like..dude, leave the PT solos for PT. (I do like PT, but..c'mon)

When SW is recording the mellotron for a Damnation track, afterwards Mike says BOO-TEE-FULL. SW jokingly says we're gonna have the mellotron everyfuckingwhere, I can tell. Then you're gonna listen to the album, and be like shit I'm fucking sick of that mellotron, why did I put it on everything?
...It's Mike's choice, where he wants instruments and where. SW can surely advise, but I mean, a statement like that?

Mike states how he writes very well musically/lyrically while under pressure, in the studio. SW follows up that: Mikes working on lyrics/vocal ideas as we go along, and that's good for me, because that means i can get involved in that as well (notice the ME. not it's good for the overall sound or, for the band)


I do not dislike SW, but seeing it again struck me a different way. Maybe I'm overreacting, I'm not sure.

first of all, him doodling off tape with a solo that wont be on the record never hurt anyone. so i dont see where youre going with that at all.

second of all, Mikael made it very clear he wanted mellotron all over the record, Steven Wilson was obliging, but probably thought more keyboard variation would have been better....i agree with this myself.

third of all, when a producer is hired to produce a record, hes assuming the band thinks what he does IS GOOD FOR THE BAND...not part of his own personal agenda or whatever you think his motives were. so in that context i dont think it was out of line for him to say he could get his hands dirty in certain aspects of the material, in order to try and make the album better.

and yes...youre overreacting. you didnt like the material of the last few records, thats what you need to come to grips with. people need to stop using Steven as a scapegoat.

 

[deliverance]

when did i ever say i didn't like BWP-D2? i like all of them..a lot. probably bwp least, but i still like them all.
i never said SW was a bad man, nor do i use him as a scapegoat, since i like all opeth material, past and present.
i think he did good work on the albums.
i simply wanted to clear my head of my thoughts after seeing it again. those were my opinions. end.

 

[Mirrored Ghost]

LordHypnos, I totally agree with you.

They hired Steve for the job for a reason...... they want him there. I am sure if they did not like what he was bringing to the table that the others would step up and tell him something. Looking at this documentary, it sure doesn't seem that way. Also, I personally do not see anything that Steve said as "elitist".

I love Steve's involvement with Opeth completely and I do hope he continues to work with them in future. He adds alot of spice to the band, imo, and Blackwater Park is freaking awesome in every way.

 

[deliverance]

his involvement has been good. and yes, i think if they didn't want something in there, they would tell him.
this next album, going by what mike has thought it will contain, should be interesting with SW in the chair again, though.

after this one, i think it would be interesting to work with another producer...on the other hand, i know they're probable stance in the future will be: why fix something if it's not broken, which is logical. i just would like to see what it would turn out like with someone else, in the future.

 

[Mirrored Ghost]

Hehe. I like the logical stance.

 

[Ermz]

I'd like to see them go with Dan Swano again < that man knows what's up

 

[The Night And The Silent Water]

Someone earlier stated that SW doesnt even have an interest in metal... not sure if this is has been mentioned but this from the opening shot on the dvd having him in a Dillenger Escape Plan t-shirt i think thats a little silly...

I personally beleive that SW is pretty good in his own right, but i personally liked Opeth before SW came into the picture, but its pretty obvious that SW has kinda become the honourary fifth member. I still love the stuff they all come out with and i found the making of... on the DVD amazing. All in all, continued work with SW wouldnt be bad for either party...

 

[deliverance]

I'd like to see them go with Dan Swano again < that man knows what's up

After the upcoming album, I would definetly like to see that as well. Would be very interesting.

 

[Nico]

^Great sig Deliverance

Someone earlier stated that SW doesnt even have an interest in metal... not sure if this is has been mentioned but this from the opening shot on the dvd having him in a Dillenger Escape Plan t-shirt i think thats a little silly...

Since when have DEP been metal?

 

[dorian gray]

my question: why is it not considered lame for opeth, or any band for that matter, to rely so heavily on a "producer"? ive been hearing that for years. so and so is going to to be so good on their next album because so and so is their producer. i get so tired of hearing about steve wilson, dan swano, kevin fucking shirley, blah blah blah. either put them in the band and have their picture in the sleeve of shut up about them.
whatever happened to people playing music and recording it? isnt anyone any good in their own right anymore? i mean, if someone is adding so much to your band and your sound, why stop with just one person? how about 69 producers?
i see what LoGaP is saying but i also feel for D1.
am i so wrong?

 

[Nico]

^Nah I'd agree with that Dorian, I often find my favorite albums are produced by non-existent producers. People that no-one cares about. If people were less fussy about production/producers, there would be a world of better music out there. God knows it's true for Metallica.

 

[NFU]

A lot of the production depends on the complexity of the music and the compositions. And therefore, the more complicated the process, the more a talented and important producer is needed. For instance, blackwater park couldnt be produced by just anyone in my opinion, lots of facets, layers, nuances and effects/sounds being incorporated into the music....but bands like The Haunted or Bloodbath could probably be produced by any standard metal producer. I dont think its so black and white.

 

[dorian gray]

LoGaP, i agree with you that certain albums like BWP are complex and nuanced and need a pertinent producer to draw those sounds out. but, it bothers me that there is a need to do that in the first place. ive always felt that music is an art form and frankly i dont see any room in art for shortcuts. i would consider the ability to manipulate sound with computer and recording equipment a shortcut.
i would also consider the need to use an outside influence (steve wilson is almost a svengali in my opinion) a shortcut.

 

[dorian gray]

gunhaver, at least make your posts funny. that one was a waste.

 

[NFU]

LoGaP, i agree with you that certain albums like BWP are complex and nuanced and need a pertinent producer to draw those sounds out. but, it bothers me that there is a need to do that in the first place. ive always felt that music is an art form and frankly i dont see any room in art for shortcuts. i would consider the ability to manipulate sound with computer and recording equipment a shortcut.
i would also consider the need to use an outside influence (steve wilson is almost a svengali in my opinion) a shortcut.

if you dont like music being created or produced with computers, then i guarantee 95% of the albums you own should be thrown out.

music isnt tainted by computers unless you want it to be or make it sound that way. analog equipment is far too outdated for OPETH to get the SOUND THEY WANT in these circumstances. once again, stop using the Steven Wilson "scapegoat" for really what is your blame displacement for not enjoying Mikaels recent writing.

 

[NFU]

I think ol' Steve is really good, and he does a pretty cool job for the guys.... but the one thing that made me kinda like, huh? was the thing in my sig, the making fun of the guitar part. and Mikael goes Stop. I dunno

was that on the documentary? i dont remember seeing that part

 

[Ermz]

if you dont like music being created or produced with computers, then i guarantee 95% of the albums you own should be thrown out.

music isnt tainted by computers unless you want it to be or make it sound that way. analog equipment is far too outdated for OPETH to get the SOUND THEY WANT in these circumstances. once again, stop using the Steven Wilson "scapegoat" for really what is your blame displacement for not enjoying Mikaels recent writing.

Well actually a good deal of studios do use analog equipment. As soon as music is digitised and saved onto a hard drive, quality loss occurs and alot of bands/producers don't like that, so a good degree of studios mix hardware/software modules such as Pro Tools with analog and physical systems. This is true for the tertiary education institute that I'll be attending next year. They have 3 recording studios, with the best one using a Pro Tools set-up, yet still majorly relying on analog equipment (it is considered a professional-level studio, apt enough for professional recordings).

By the way, it's an Audio Engineering course I'm entering and the future prospect will be for me to produce artists. Moving into computers makes things a load easier when it comes to recordings, but you suffer the drawback of over-compression, albums sounding generic... people trying to over-polish things and making them sound artificial...

It's all about the pros and cons, but when it comes to computer recording, the potential and tools available certainly outweight the cons.

 

[NFU]

It's all about the pros and cons, but when it comes to computer recording, the potential and tools available certainly outweight the cons.

That was my point

 

[TheFourthHorseman]

was that on the documentary? i dont remember seeing that part

I just remember Steven doing that "dun dun dun" thing that TheMoor was talking about. Maybe Mikael did say "stop", but it doesn't seem to me that Steven was doing it to mock the heavy riff in any way...
Ah, who cares?