Steve Wilson and Opeth

[T-Rat]

i think that everyone needs to get the fuck over it already...
SW is a fact of Opeth at this point. Opeth is not a purely heavy sounding band--they never were. SW fits in with what they want to sound like and their influences.
you can gripe about this as much as you want, but it just seems like you wish Opeth was something other than what it really is in the here-and-now. if you want to lock yourself up and listen to only the older heavy songs then go for it. but this stuff is getting old.
sorry to rant, y'all.
i feel better now.
whew.

 

[Ermz]

But when Swano was their producer, they had more distortion

 

[dorian gray]

if you dont like music being created or produced with computers, then i guarantee 95% of the albums you own should be thrown out.

music isnt tainted by computers unless you want it to be or make it sound that way. analog equipment is far too outdated for OPETH to get the SOUND THEY WANT in these circumstances. once again, stop using the Steven Wilson "scapegoat" for really what is your blame displacement for not enjoying Mikaels recent writing.

I dont really know anything about SW and thus, im not using him as a scapegoat. i never said anything about mikes current writing either. i happen to like everything hes ever done, especially BWP.

i was mererly suggesting that there might be a different appraoch to music. are you still a golfer if you use a technologically advanced club to nail the ball a mile? i dont think so. i think thats what modern musicians do. they rely too heavily on outside influences (a la SW) and depend on artificial editing devices to clean up their recordings.

i understand thats something that has to be done in light of all the "artists" that exits soley for the purpose of making money. undergroud death metal bands are naturally going to have to compete for an audience when every one elses "work" is created for the audience as opposed to being created for the creator.

its no big deal, i just think its interesting that at one point there was only live music and then the next, there was recorded music. from then on, its been a constant stuggle to depersonalize music and make it a commercial - a franchise. in the timeline of music, the recorded era is infinitely small. people made do with live music for thousands and thousands of years. it is appropriate to assume an ever increasing trend toward less and less human involvement. hell, what is the percentage of albums these days that actually have real instruments on them?

 

[NFU]

I dont really know anything about SW and thus, im not using him as a scapegoat. i never said anything about mikes current writing either. i happen to like everything hes ever done, especially BWP.

i was mererly suggesting that there might be a different appraoch to music. are you still a golfer if you use a technologically advanced club to nail the ball a mile? i dont think so. i think thats what modern musicians do. they rely too heavily on outside influences (a la SW) and depend on artificial editing devices to clean up their recordings.

i understand thats something that has to be done in light of all the "artists" that exits soley for the purpose of making money. undergroud death metal bands are naturally going to have to compete for an audience when every one elses "work" is created for the audience as opposed to being created for the creator.

its no big deal, i just think its interesting that at one point there was only live music and then the next, there was recorded music. from then on, its been a constant stuggle to depersonalize music and make it a commercial - a franchise. in the timeline of music, the recorded era is infinitely small. people made do with live music for thousands and thousands of years. it is appropriate to assume an ever increasing trend toward less and less human involvement. hell, what is the percentage of albums these days that actually have real instruments on them?

Opeth is a musicians band. Music written by musicians for themselves. Opeth is not written, created or produced for a "commercial" desire for success, so i think youre barking up the wrong tree.

 

[dorian gray]

firstly, i wasnt even talking about opeth, just music in general. secondly, id like to agree with you but theres no way you can prove that. did you ask mike this? i would think, logically, that if what you say is true, opeth would just meet at mikes house and jam. they wouldnt go to the trouble with producing albums, signing contracts, and the ultimate commitment to commercial success - touring.
i will grant you that opeth are in a special position that they arent forced to be a commercially oriented band. yet, as long as one is getting paid for doing something, they cannot avoid commercialism 100%. surely, at some point, mike and company have thought, maybe just to themselves, that a certain sound would sell more albums.
i doubt mike is so stupid that he'll starve rather than allow the listening public public to influence his writing.
bottom line: mike is not a god. hes a married guy in his late 20s who plays guitar and just happens to have a talent at the right time. mike goes to the grocery and takes shits. stop worshipping him.

 

[NFU]

firstly, i wasnt even talking about opeth, just music in general. secondly, id like to agree with you but theres no way you can prove that. did you ask mike this?

stop worshipping him.

No, i didnt ask him, but he has said that they could care less about any commercial success in numerous interviews as well in the documentary on the dvd.

i dont worship mike, just admit defeat in your shallow allogations.

 

[dorian gray]

allogations? allegations? heh.
seriously, i, too, have heard mike say all that and ive read it in his interviews. i think it is bullshit. granted, mike may keep his word and he may have to live on the street because people stop buying his albums. i would applaud his integrity. however, the man has no college education and worked part time in a music store. is that his plan when opeth fizzles out?

 

[deliverance]

let us not forget that being in a band is a job, and, hmm..you get paid for your job.
i'm sure the guys would like to eat, as said above.
but as hypnos is saying, he doesn't exactly write music for money. he enjoys doing what he does regardless but gets paid for it.
and mike has said it serveral times: they won't sellout or make music others want to hear (i.e. the commercialism we've been discussing). i believe him..i just don't see him making music he doesn't like, or making something because people will like it more...nope.

 

[Djm]

allogations? allegations? heh.
seriously, i, too, have heard mike say all that and ive read it in his interviews. i think it is bullshit. granted, mike may keep his word and he may have to live on the street because people stop buying his albums. i would applaud his integrity. however, the man has no college education and worked part time in a music store. is that his plan when opeth fizzles out?

It seems to be working for ol' Mr Swanö.

 

[dorian gray]

what are you guys talking about? he DOES write music for money. how else would you and i know about opeth if he didnt? to think that mike is *completely* immune to the lures of commercialism is naive. listen: im NOT saying mike *is* thinking about how to sell more albums; im suggesting that hes not immune to it.
these underground musicians have integrity and play for the music but they also get paid! although theyre not switching formats and going pop, that doesnt mean they arent thinking how to move out of that shitty apartment and into a house.

no one wants to answer my question: what does mike plan on doing when opeth fizzles out? and dont respond with some anomoly like dan swano. thats one guy. what about the thousands upon thousands of washed up musicians who didnt give a shit about anything else and now they work at IHOP?

 

[NFU]

what are you guys talking about? he DOES write music for money. how else would you and i know about opeth if he didnt? to think that mike is *completely* immune to the lures of commercialism is naive. listen: im NOT saying mike *is* thinking about how to sell more albums; im suggesting that hes not immune to it.
these underground musicians have integrity and play for the music but they also get paid! although theyre not switching formats and going pop, that doesnt mean they arent thinking how to move out of that shitty apartment and into a house.

no one wants to answer my question: what does mike plan on doing when opeth fizzles out? and dont respond with some anomoly like dan swano. thats one guy. what about the thousands upon thousands of washed up musicians who didnt give a shit about anything else and now they work at IHOP?

Assuming that mike writes for commercial success is one thing. Now assuming he wouldnt be happy living where hes at now, and working a normal job i think is being very ballzy and presumptuous on your part. How do you know he wants more "did you ask him, do you call him at home?" i dont think so. get over it, your point is lame and one sided.

 

[dorian gray]

Assuming that mike writes for commercial success is one thing. Now assuming he wouldnt be happy living where hes at now, and working a normal job i think is being very ballzy and presumptuous on your part. How do you know he wants more "did you ask him, do you call him at home?" i dont think so. get over it, your point is lame and one sided.

no, i didnt ask him. i *was* being presumptuous. i thought that was rather obvious. i was trying to make it obvious for the sake of argument. without such arguments, we could go back to talking about how small mikes dick is, you fucking nerd.
i have a few questions for you: do you still live at mom and dads? have you gone to college? have you graduated? are you married? do you have any kids? do you have any life experience at all? im just asking because youre a 21 year old working for your parents and telling me my point is lame. i used to respect your points but no longer.

 

[NFU]

no, i didnt ask him. i *was* being presumptuous. i thought that was rather obvious. i was trying to make it obvious for the sake of argument. without such arguments, we could go back to talking about how small mikes dick is, you fucking nerd.
i have a few questions for you: do you still live at mom and dads? have you gone to college? have you graduated? are you married? do you have any kids? do you have any life experience at all? im just asking because youre a 21 year old working for your parents and telling me my point is lame. i used to respect your points but no longer.

first of all...my brother and i own the company, and i work WITH my parents, not FOR them. 2nd of all, my life experience is pretty broad for my age, for i had an unusally busy and grown up childhood.

however, none of this is relevant to you, or to this conversation...nor does my self esteem rely on whether or not your dumb ass respects my opinions or not. i suggest moving on, for personal attacks and assumptions are only further proving your weak standpoint in this debate.

 

[dorian gray]

based on that reply, i would think your self-esteem is heavily reliant on this forum. yet, i believe you when you say you dont care about my respect. its obvious you dont care about anyones respect here. you have equal hatred for anything you dont like.
further, i wasnt assuming anything about you; i asked questions. which, of course, you didnt bother to answer.
finally, you *did* say you worked (accounting, specificaly) for your parents company. perhaps you and your brother took over and i didnt know that fact.

 

[Rocky Raccoon]

cool it children

 

[dddaaannn94]

From someone who needs to be "creative" for a living, a couple of points:

1) Suppose Mike lived in a vacuum where nobody could ever hear his work. Would he have written the exact same 7 albums of material? I doubt it. On the other hand, I bet it would still sound like Opeth.

2) I don't think writing for commercial success is necessarily "selling-out". I think a worthy goal of any artist is to expose as many people as possible to one's best art. This goal might be better served making 20 semi-commercial albums than 1 completely non-commercial albums. The point here is that the more commercial an album is, the more likely you are going to be able to make/distribute another one.... There are always tradeoffs.

 

[NFU]

based on that reply, i would think your self-esteem is heavily reliant on this forum. yet, i believe you when you say you dont care about my respect. its obvious you dont care about anyones respect here. you have equal hatred for anything you dont like.
further, i wasnt assuming anything about you; i asked questions. which, of course, you didnt bother to answer.
finally, you *did* say you worked (accounting, specificaly) for your parents company. perhaps you and your brother took over and i didnt know that fact.

i am the accountant , yes...that hasnt changed...i also run the computer systems and the stock/shipping wherehouse. My brother is the designer and president. we have bought the business from our parents when we turned 18, 3 years ago.

my self esteem isnt at all reliant on this forum, dont flatter yourself and the other people here. i enjoy opeth and discussing them and related topics, it ends there, i assure you.

 

[Arnold Layne]

^Nah I'd agree with that Dorian, I often find my favorite albums are produced by non-existent producers. People that no-one cares about. If people were less fussy about production/producers, there would be a world of better music out there. God knows it's true for Metallica.

I agree to an extent, I think floyd also got restricted once they got into named producers (and roger but thats a whole other story).

I like what steven wilson has been doing i think hes been getting stuff out that mucheal couldnt get out other ways, he does great work but deliverance isnt as good as it could have been. Damnation kicks ass though.

 

[Ermz]

dorian, there's no need to turn this into a personal debate. Personal attacks exhibit genuine frustration on forums, and generally make you look like a fucktard. Whatever LordHypno's opinions are regarding contemporary music production, they don't correlate with his personal life nor his profession (not that I've seen anyway), so there is no need to bring them into this.

 

[NFU]

dorian, there's no need to turn this into a personal debate. Personal attacks exhibit genuine frustration on forums, and generally make you look like a fucktard. Whatever LordHypno's opinions are regarding contemporary music production, they don't correlate with his personal life nor his profession (not that I've seen anyway), so there is no need to bring them into this.

precisely.