So what the fuck, is digital music going to take over completely?

[NAD]

I'm the most Jewish Muslim I've ever met...

hahahahahahaha

I prefer to support artists. I download and receive CD-Rs by the buttload, but if I find myself listening to an mp3 or CD-R more than 5 or 6 times, I almost always stop listening to it until I buy a regular copy. The only exceptions are really expensive shit, like I have a few Swans CD-Rs that I haven't purchased regular copies of.

 

[J.]

I only have a few CDrs. Some Scald stuff that unhinged (a member of the band) sent me, a Stand-Up Guy demo that a member sent me, and the second Arcane Sun album, which is only available on CDr since it was never officially released.

I do have a Darkthrone CDr and a Mayhem CDr which Erik traded to me to kind of even out a EP-for-full length trade. THough, I think I've listened to them twice since getting them probably 6 to 8 months ago.

I've just always been a stickler for the real deal. Hell, I don't even getting re-releases a lot of tmes, instead opting to pay more for an original copy.

 

[speed]

speed - I'm not arguing that digitial medium is a new format (not replacing anything, just added to something that already exists). The last medium to truly die out was the 8-track.

You have to make the distinction between that and "downloading for free" because you have some estranged principles that make you think you're special enough to warrant downloading everything for free! It's really quite odd, and self-righteous.

Yes, well again, interesting. I was trying to refrain from my criminal arguing, and argue just for the joys of digital; but I did mention the free downloading-oh well.

Anyway I take offense to your comment I am special enough to download for free, and I am self righteous. However, I am not going to argue against my obvious inclinations towards self righteousness---nor your obvious inclinations. What I will argue is that it seems everyone on this board has engaged in some downloading, or what could be deemed illicit and illegal behavior: IF i remember correctly Mr Keeley posted a song for free listening just a few days ago. Now shame on you lawbreaker. Hence, I am confused as to your snow white principles; I openly state my lack of principles and self righteousness--you break your principles and have the hypocrisy to tell me I am estranged. Tsk tsk.

I await rebuttal.

 

[J.]

oh please. we all took part in that "Listen to these uploads" thread. THey were songs ripped from CDs we own (at least mine were) for others who might be interested in BUYING the Cd from the artist. I, myself, listened to a few of them and then forgot about most of them, as I'm sure most of us did.

Uploading one song from a CD you own for someone to judge is hardly the same thing as downloading an entire album knowing full well you have no intention of ever spending one penny on that band.

Face it, you have no respect for these artists, and you could really care less about them. And bringin up Robert Plant and Elvs Costello holds no water. They are rich. How about listening to unhinged, as he has a far more relevant view on this than those rich geezers.

 

[JayKeeley]

See earlier post:

Sampling music is ok. Hell, downloading is ok as long as you have an intention to buy something at some point. How else are you maintaining a balance? You're clearly stating that you, ON PRINCIPLE, will only download for free and NEVER buy anything. That is completely self-righteous, because you know very well that the people who are actually paying for the stuff are the same people keeping the scene buoyant. WHo are you to ride on their coat tails?

You're preaching to the wrong audience. This is a self financed webzine, we don't sell banner space, we don't even rely on labels. (Quite frankly, I voted against even dealing with labels). The support for the scene comes from our devotion to it, and if that means financing it from our pockets, so be it. That financial support is MANDATORY if it's to stay alive: zine, forum, buying CDs, going to concerts, buying merchandise, etc. Of course, not all of these components are compulsory for everyone, but to not do anything ever and just rip it off on a continuous basis just stands against everything we've been trying to do for the last couple of years.

Fuck me, has it been 3 years already?

 

[NAD]

Just two. Pretty sure it was March 3rd...?

We launched March 3rd 2003.

Damn I'm good.

 

[JayKeeley]

Yeah, that's right. Well, why didn't you say something on March 3rd then for our 2 years anniversary, you dirty gromit? I was expecting roses.

By the way, I notice you started this thread discussion and then ducked out.

 

[NAD]

Yeah, I planted a seed and hightailed it. Oops.

I think a week after 3/3/2005 I mentioned it in a thread somewhere, but nobody saw it/cared/something/Iunno.

 

[JayKeeley]

Yeah, I planted a seed and hightailed it. Oops.

This is the millionth discussion on downloading digital blah blah. And this while a thread exists announcing where you can buy the HARD AS FUCK TO FIND Slough Feg 7". Surely that would be worth a mention.

I think a week after 3/3/2005 I mentioned it in a thread somewhere, but nobody saw it/cared/something/Iunno.

eh?

 

[NAD]

As in, I said "hey what the fuck, our two year anniversary just passed!" on like page 17 of some bizarre discussion. It went unnoticed.

I saw that Slough Feg 7" thingy, my money for buying that kind of stuff = $0 right now though.

 

[speed]

Sampling music is ok. Hell, downloading is ok as long as you have an intention to buy something at some point. How else are you maintaining a balance? You're clearly stating that you, ON PRINCIPLE, will only download for free and NEVER buy anything. That is completely self-righteous, because you know very well that the people who are actually paying for the stuff are the same people keeping the scene buoyant. WHo are you to ride on their coat tails?

Downloading to sample to help decide whether to buy or not = ok.

Paying to download music via iTunes or whatever = ok.

Ripping your personal CD collection to convenient MP3 format = ok.

Thank you, you have proven my point. Dont rationalize downloading in any way shape or form, because it is illegal in the eyes of the law, and then have the gall to tell me I have no principles. You can rationalize why it is ok on your own self righteous principles all you want, but you have lost your moral high ground. You do realize in court, every download sample you tried, would have to be backed up with a purchased CD, unless it was off a bands website. I am a bit pissed that you have made this a personal moral attack. Frankly, it doesnt suit you.

 

[JayKeeley]

Your only defence comes out of trying to appease your own guilty conscience. You know you're in the wrong 100%, you have no argument.

Your bottom line is this: On principle, you feel that you deserve to download everything for free. That's it.

There is no grey area here.

 

[J.]

That is completely self-righteous, because you know very well that the people who are actually paying for the stuff are the same people keeping the scene buoyant. WHo are you to ride on their coat tails?

Couldn't be said better. Rampant downloaders do not respect the scene. They are like that guy in school who just counted on everyone else in his lab group to come up with the answers, and then he would just leech the answers and get the same grade without ever offering anything worthwhile.

What is the main reason behind downloading, without ever buying the CD? Are people really that strapped that they can't afford $10-$12 for the CD? Get a friggin' job. Or quit wasting money on porn or going out or drugs. Budget man, budget.

 

[Papa Josh]

or don't claim to be a fan of music. :Smug:

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

speed, I must say, you look like a fucking schlong here.

 

[speed]

There is no grey area here? Oh well, its pointless arguing with people who see things black and white. I suppose you are blind to the millions that are oblivious to your way of thinking, but isnt that always the case?

I was only pissed off because you made this into a personal attack; not a argument on the actual issues--arguments which are always one sentence-- Speed your a thief. I am sure you would be pissed as well. And no, I have no guilty conscious about it. Self righteousness has its rewards--as you and others ahem Erik, J, etc know so well.

 

[speed]

or don't claim to be a fan of music. :Smug:

What kind of statement is that? You realize the logic of that statement; i.e. anyone that has downloaded isnt a fan of music. Christ man, you'd think downloading is akin to selling heroin.

 

[JayKeeley]

And no, I have no guilty conscious about it.

Yeah, well, it's just a question of ethics at the end of the day.

 

[Papa Josh]

What kind of statement is that? You realize the logic of that statement; i.e. anyone that has downloaded isnt a fan of music. Christ man, you'd think downloading is akin to selling heroin.

If ALL you do is download, then you seriously cannot claim to be a fan of the music. Yeah, I tape traded back in the day, and guess what, I usually went and bought the album. Yeah, I download stuff, but again, if I like it, I usually will buy it.

 

[Reign in Acai]

It's the year 2012 and we're still talking about illegal file-sharing lawsuits. Earlier this year, All Shall Perish were stunned when their fans were getting subpoenas for downloading their most recent album, and the band was vehemently against it. Eventually, all charges were dropped.

Now Century Media is entering their hat in the file-sharing lawsuit ring.

According to a new article in NorthJersey.com, Jay R. McDaniel, an attorney representing the label is in the process of suing thousands of metalheads who downloaded Lacuna Coil's Dark Adrenaline and Iced Earth's Dystopia, the most recent offerings from both the bands. According to the article, the case is in the "John Doe" phase, with IP addresses obtained of file-sharers who downloaded the tracks using BitTorrent and McDaniels is currently trying to get permission to subpoena the internet service providers of those IP addresses, to track down the users behind them, at which point formal suits will be issued. Alleged downloads can settle for a pre-determined amount (usually a few thousand dollars) or choose to go to court, and if found guilty, they could face a fine upwards of $150,000.

First, I'd like to state it is completely within Century Media's rights to pursue legal action when it comes to these illegal downloads. The law is being broken when you download a full album without paying for it on a BitTorrent tracker (or anywhere else), and these are the type of risks you should know going into this. So you certainly can't blame the label for pursuing legal action.

But the question I have is what do they hope to gain from this? In terms of PR, this is a bad business move. They will get mostly negative feedback for this, as they are being perceived as "the man" trying to stick it to the little guy.

Do they think that word spreading of their impending lawsuits will halt illegal downloading? Because that will not happen. Metallica albums still get freely shared all over the place. Plus, for all intents and purposes, BitTorrent is seen as passé. There are thousands of MP3 blogs and file sharing message boards that use sites like RapidShare to illegally distribute album leaks now. You can find full album streams easily on Youtube. This will never stop. As soon as the labels catch on to the new way of doing things, something new will emerge.

Who are they targeting? It's a safe bet that most of these illegal downloads were by kids, younger than 18. Where are they going to get $5,000, or whatever the number ends up being, to settle this lawsuit?

Ultimately, what is their endgame? Since revenues from recording music are dwindling, are lawsuits being seen a new revenue stream for the label? I know that seems ridiculous to the average reader, but I can absolutely see this being the case. The label just lost one of their biggest acts, and might be scrambling for solutions.

It's very early in the subpoena process to tell if anything will come of this. The Jersey judge may deny the ISP subpoena and this may be over and done with, but should this keep going, it can get really messy.


Can't say I blame them though, there's yentas who buy absolutely nil music nowadays.