Something that bothers me about DT

[Blind Tranquillity]

(I'm hoping the band might see this...)

I'm not sure that I have much of a right to complain about DT since they are one of my favourite bands and I'm really enjoying and appreciating all the music they have made so far.
The thing is... that I read in several interviews that the band members don't like to (or they even might have said they never) listen to their own albums after threy're released.

Well, I'm not sure how to phrase this, but... If you don't create your albums for yourselves then why are you creating them? Isn't the music supposed to be enjoyable to you too? It seems very important to me that a band will enjoy listening to their own music. What kind of music are they making if not the kind they're supposed like? Who's supposed to listen to it if they don't?

Mostly I just find it strange (and yes, I'm aware that they preform and rehearse their songs quite a lot, but I don't think it's te same). I would surely be glad to know if their's some philosophy standing behind this or is it just because they don't like listening to it...

Don't get me wrong, of course I want them to continue what they're doing, I'm just very curious.

 

[Northern Lights]

Maybe after months and again months of working on the same songs, recording, re-recording, etc., etc. they're bloody sick of those particular songs...

 

[Blind Tranquillity]

I was expecting such a reply
I don't think that's the case
Plus I believe that one of the most important things about making music is to try to make it so people won't get tired of it.
Anyway, I don't think that's the case, because they also talked about not listening to their old albums (if I recall correctly), which came out 10 years and more ago (enough time to get over getting tired of recording and re-recording, I believe...).

I think it's more in the direction of a 'not-looking-back' attitude. But I don't fully understand that either...

Edit: Typo...

 

[plintus]

So what - I don't go to the sites I design/program for pleasure, check smth I forgot out - may be, but to hang there all the time, keep in Favourites or BUY access to them - no.

Self prevention from self-copying

 

[Arch]

I think the bandmembers listen to diverse types of music, which is why they hardly look back on their albums. I can't see why not looking back on their albums is a cause for concern.

 

[rahvin]

Anyway, I don't think that's the case, because they also talked about not listening to their old albums (if I recall correctly), which came out 10 years and more ago (enough time to get over getting tired of recording and re-recording, I believe...).

there are some moments when bandmembers (at least a few of them) listen to the old records again. but you can't really expect a fruition of their own material as if they were avid fans. and northern lights is more or less right: the band knows their own songs too well to spend a lot of time listening to the newer albums.

 

[The Don]

Yeah think about it this way: You toy with a song for about 3 months, record it over and over, then play it for 10 years straight nearly every day. Would you want to have a nice sit and listen to that song?

Also, can you name me a band that actually says "Yeah we listen to our old records all the time! They rock so hard!"?

I'm not trying to attack you Blind Tranquillity but I get the feeling that you think these guys don't like the music they create. I'm sure they do

 

[Strahd]

Now I don't know the bands view on this but I suspect that where we just find great music they analyze the songs way more than we and thus finds all the negative things about the songs. Perhaps they pay more attention to what they could have done differently in a song and that takes away their enjoyment?

 

[Blind Tranquillity]

Here's what Niklas said in an interview for Pitfather.com:

I don't really care about the old albums. I like them for what they are, but I never listen to them myself unless it's absolutely needed. Every release is a documentation about our goals and ambitions at the given time, and it'd be impossible for me to try and compare them and analyze them. They all have their strong and weak points, but I can't have an opinion about them like I would with any other band's music.

Well, I know Blind Guardian (which happens to be my favourite band) listen to their old stuff and say they have favourite old songs and albums (while they keep progressing). A band should write music they'll be satisfied with. How can you say you are satisfied with it if you don't like to listen to it anymore (unless it's absolutly needed)?
I also expect and assume my favourite bands are working on their stuff enough time to notice and correct the faults before releasing the album.

I don't believe music can be compared to other arts on this aspect. An album is not like a movie or a book or a painting that you see\read once or twice and then feel satisfied with yourself. I'm sure people here listen a lot to albums they like, and I don't think there's a good reason for a band to not listen and enjoy their old albums too once in a while. Music is to be enjoyed, don't you think?...

 

[rahvin]

How can you say you are satisfied with it if you don't like to listen to it anymore (unless it's absolutly needed)?

i find it perfectly possible. i write short stories. i'm satisfied with some of them, but i don't really re-read them anymore.

 

[Blind Tranquillity]

i find it perfectly possible. i write short stories. i'm satisfied with some of them, but i don't really re-read them anymore.

And you think that other people that read them, read them more than once or twice?...
As I've said, music is different in that aspect. You won't buy an album, listen to it once, think it's good, and put it on the shelf, never to be listened to again, will you?

 

[rahvin]

And you think that other people that read them, read them more than once or twice?...
As I've said, music is different in that aspect. You won't buy an album, listen to it once, think it's good, and put it on the shelf, never to be listened to again, will you?

i think my attitude is representative of the way people tend to feel about their own work. my favorite short stories (by others), i've read them 10 to 20 times, but i cannot feel as strongly for something that i have made: i know it too well and i don't get anything i don't already know from returning to it.

even if we accept that others (i.e., blind guardian, apparently) can feel different about their own stuff, i'm not sure you're proving anything except that people can feel different about their own stuff.

 

[Blind Tranquillity]

i think my attitude is representative of the way people tend to feel about their own work. my favorite short stories (by others), i've read them 10 to 20 times, but i cannot feel as strongly for something that i have made: i know it too well and i don't get anything i don't already know from returning to it.

even if we accept that others (i.e., blind guardian, apparently) can feel different about their own stuff, i'm not sure you're proving anything except that people can feel different about their own stuff.

I still think the comparisson is a bit wrong. You can't say enjoying a story is the same as enjoying music.
And I can say I wrote 2 short music tracks on my computer a long time ago, and when I listen to them it's from a very non-personal perspective.
I think that the enjoyment factor in music is much larger than in literature.

It seems to me that not being able to judge and enjoy your music like you do with other bands' music is kind of a big weakness.

 

[Siren]

@Blind Tranquillity: I think if a band would go back and say "omg how i love my music, it's so perfect that i want to listen to it all the time!!!!11", it would be kind of conceited and narcissistic. Maybe DT are modest and don't want to brag like that.

Moreover, when you create something -whatever that is- you know it too well to keep going back to it. When you're a fan you might discover new things in an album all the time, and that makes it all the more pleasant to go back to it, but when you've created it and played it for months and years all the time, what would there be left for you to discover? Why would you feel the need to put it in the cd player and listen to it, when you most possibly can recall all the tunes and notes in your head already?

One of the biggest reasons to create is to express yourself, and just put down on paper or on cd whatever you have in you (it's usually a very strong impulse). Creating for having fun with your creations is a bit superficial imo, and can be compared with wanking.

 

[hyena]

@blind tranquillity: i concur with rahvin et al. i am an author (of the scientific variety) myself - it's kind of impressive to see my papers published, but once they're on a journal i don't even think about reading them.

there's the boredom factor, on the one hand, and that has been described by several posters before me. and there's the masturbation factor: going over your stuff is like jerking off really... trying to provide on your own a pleasure that is essentially generated by the very fact that it's given by someone else. normally one does listen to music/read etc to be exposed to feelings/contents/ideas that were created by other people, we approach all forms of communications because they bring us something that is fundamentally different from ourselves, originated by someone else. that's why we have emotions about what we see/read, or why we learn if we are talking about another type of content. if i read something i've written, it cannot really make me think or feel or learn.

 

[Blind Tranquillity]

You're just ignoring what I said about the differences between these fields of art. At least explain what do you think is making them comparable on this aspect. I'm actually all for comparing usually - I even compare visual arts to music quite a lot, but one needs to know how to compare and when the comparisson is wrong. I'm not saying that your comparissons are necessarily wrong, only that you'll need to explain why it's comparable and not just compare it after I claimed that it's not.

So please, why do you think that reading a book or watching a movie is the same as listening to an album, even though an album is being listened to much more than a movie watched or a book\story read?

I can see why they wouldn't like to read their own lyrics, but I still believe that it should be otherwise towards the music itself. Do you only listen to music to find out new things and say that it's interesting?...

 

[La Rocque]

Dark Tranquillity band members would have to be some
sort of megalomaniacs to listen to their own music

 

[Wanderingblade]

Not neccesarily. I remember a Devin Townshend interview a while back where he stated he listened to his own albums all the time - he was creating the music he enjoyed listening to.

Thats fully understandable. However, I think Dark Tranquillity approach it somewhat differently in the sense they create the music they enjoy playing. They don't have to neccesarily enjoy listening to it, they have to enjoy making it and playing it. I think thats the big payoff for them and once thats done - wheres the attraction in listening to it? Nostalgia, maybe. But personally - and I feel this applies to a great many people - I listen to music always looking for something new, as it were some kind of puzzle. What challenge can there be in solving the maze of DT for those that created it?

 

[Damnationx]

I have to agree with the replies here.

I like the music my band plays, but I don't think i'll listen to it much once its done, it's just after working on the same thing for so long you get burnt out on it.

 

[Blind Tranquillity]

Not that I'm comparing, but when listening to Judas Priest's Painkiller for example (and I assume that at least some of you like this song\album) are you looking for something new, or are you just enjoying it? I'm sure this could apply for many other songs.

Would you say DT are creating music for the fans to enjoy but not for themselves? I'm sure that's not the case, but doesn't it sound like selling out?...
It's easy to say that listening to your own music is like masturbating but if you don't make it for yourself first of all then for who?
I say making music you won't enjoy (listening to) is much less rational than doing music for your enjoyment. Music is one thing that should be made to last, and if it won't last for you then how can you expect it to last long for others...