Something that bothers me about DT

fireangel said:
...
On the other hand, I can only agree to that point of view that usually it is much more fun creating something (picture, story, music, things, buildings etc) than later dealing with the result. The interesting part is the creation process itself, and afterwards, it´s kinda over and people long for doing something new.

Ah, but if that's the case then why publish it? Probably you'd like to hear what other people think of it (or just earn money), hoping they'll like it and say it's good. Of course it's satisfying to know that other people like what you enjoyed to create, but won't it be fairer of you to publish something that you think is good and that you'll like to listen to instead of releasing things you'd rather forget but still expect others to like and buy?

Enjoying the creation process alone just doesn't seem to be enough to make it worth releasing imho.
 
Blind Tranquillity said:
You're just ignoring what I said about the differences between these fields of art. At least explain what do you think is making them comparable on this aspect. I'm actually all for comparing usually - I even compare visual arts to music quite a lot, but one needs to know how to compare and when the comparisson is wrong. I'm not saying that your comparissons are necessarily wrong, only that you'll need to explain why it's comparable and not just compare it after I claimed that it's not.

So please, why do you think that reading a book or watching a movie is the same as listening to an album, even though an album is being listened to much more than a movie watched or a book\story read?
They're comparable because all of them are different expressions of creating.
You say that you listen to an album all the time, whereas you watch a movie or read a book only once or twice (which, btw, i don't agree with, you can do it many more times if you want, in order to get new insights on it or remember it or discover new information in it, or simply because you love it).
But you miss another point: you don't go around touring and reading your book to other people for months, and you don't go around acting your movie to people all the time (unless you work in a theatre, but then you can't watch your play, really, can you?).

Ah, but if that's the case then why publish it? Probably you'd like to hear what other people think of it (or just earn money), hoping they'll like it and say it's good. Of course it's satisfying to know that other people like what you enjoyed to create, but won't it be fairer of you to publish something that you think is good and that you'll like to listen to instead of releasing things you'd rather forget but still expect others to like and buy?

Enjoying the creation process alone just doesn't seem to be enough to make it worth releasing imho.
I agree with fireangel on this. Obviously since they created it and they went on to publish it, they did like it and were happy with it. If they thought it sucked, they wouldn't have thought anyone else might like it either, huh?
Also, they're something called accomplishment and many people want to achieve that (if not all). There's nothing bad to wish for other people to recognize you can do something well, don't we all want that?
Last but not least, you seem to not understand that the drive for creation can be a pretty strong one, enough to satisfy you after putting down what you have inside you, and a very good reason for creating. The happiness that comes from creating is also a perfectly good reason to want to share your creation with others and see what they think of it..
 
rahvin said:
but that's just so nobody can say that no one listens to devin townshend.

Don't like him I'm guessing? Never listened to him myself, but I know people who do and anyone who gets main interviews in Kerrang isn't there because no one likes him.

To get back to the main point - you don't have to listen to something to have enjoyed having created it or like it or think its good. Theres a few riffs in my time that I've written that I'm convinced are as good as any, but I rarely go and listen to them. Its just a different mindset and I honestly can't see anything wrong with it.

You can obviously Blind - why? If they thought they weren't good, they wouldn't have enjoyed the creation process or put them out for people's thoughts. At the same time, that doesn't mean that they'll want to go back and listen to them. Different people approach it differently.
 
Wanderingblade said:
Don't like him I'm guessing? Never listened to him myself, but I know people who do and anyone who gets main interviews in Kerrang isn't there because no one likes him.

actually, the little i've heard of him makes me think he's ok. i was merely mocking his status as an icon of old times, some past glory who's not making the front page anymore.
 
Interesting discussion - and since I have some time to throw in my 5 cents, here goes:

The whole thing is a bit misinterpretated here to begin with. It's not a band issue or statement at all - it's just me saying in some interviews that I'm not listening to our own music very often. The rest of the guys may be playing D.T. at home all the time and enjoy it a lot. I don't know.

This is nothing spectacular - there are lots of creatives that can't detach the work itself from all the emotional baggage involved in the creation of it and therefore chose not to listen to/watch/read it more than once in a while for good measure. Most musicians are like this.

In our case, When a track finally is finished, it's the result of countless hours of work and compromise, of six people with different opinions trying different arrangements out, analyzing every single detail, doing demo recordings during various stages in the process, going back and forth trying to nail down _the_ perfect combination of all the thousands of variables that makes up a song. And on the top of this we have the whole recording/mixing situation which just as many decisions to make. At the end of that process, it's hard to listen to the final result in the same way that you'd listen to other bands that you don't have that sort of involvement with. Like it or not, but that's how it is. This doesn't mean that I don't love our albums, but rather that I can't listen to them too often without getting overly analytical about them. I also can relate to the masturbation perspective (finally I got to put that into a sentence) and all the other reasons people have posted here.

On another note, the tour is going fine. We just arrived to Barcelona and have friend/director Roger Johansson with us to record some stuff for an upcoming video. Me and Martin spent the last hour headbanging in front of a wall with grafitti, so it's good footage for sure.
 
Whoa, a nice discussion once in a while - for sure one of the most interesting threads lately. Thanks for the nice reading, people! :)

Caotico said:
On another note, the tour is going fine. We just arrived to Barcelona and have friend/director Roger Johansson with us to record some stuff for an upcoming video. Me and Martin spent the last hour headbanging in front of a wall with grafitti, so it's good footage for sure.

What video??? :err: Are you planning on having another single from Character? Or is this just some kind of bonus-video to be added to some obscure future release? What song(s)? The inquiring minds want to know all the details. o_O

Anyways, have great time touring and see you at Helsinki!

-Villain
 
wow, that's some good insight. Thanks so much Niklas... interesting news about the new video aswell.

I personally revisit my own work quite alot... looking at where I've been can help guide me to where I'm going. Plus I feel proud of some of it... the sense of achievement is something all artists strive for. The sense of achievement probably won't be as rewarding though after the 200th song recorded, and I guess it's with this loss of the magic why people take a more work like ethic with their art.
 
Thanks Niklas!
I'm really flattered that you think it's an interesting discussion, and that you chose to respond. I'm sorry if my opinion seemed a bit harsh. As I said, I love all your works (including your visual arts) and your reply was really satisfying.
I was actually about to say that everyone might be right but that it was, at least, an interesting discussion :D ...

Well, I guess it's indeed too hard to judge your own work in an objective way. Since I'm not really making music myself I guess I needed a band member to tell me this thing, and apparently it's not something that damages the music's quality so it doesn't really matter that much.
Oh well... I don't know what about you, but I really enjoyed this discussion (especially it's grandiose ending - Niklas replying).
 
Omg, now that Niklas replied and said that you started an interesting discussion you can die happy.
It's funny how so many people basically said the same things over and over, and all it took for you to change your mind was the reply of a DT member.
 
Siren said:
Omg, now that Niklas replied and said that you started an interesting discussion you can die happy.
It's funny how so many people basically said the same things over and over, and all it took for you to change your mind was the reply of a DT member.

Ah, lucidity.

Cheers.

I hate sycophants.
 
Well, I'm sorry, but as I've said in the openning post:


Blind Tranquillity said:
(I'm hoping the band might see this...)

I'm not sure that I have much of a right to complain about DT since they are one of my favourite bands and I'm really enjoying and appreciating all the music they have made so far.
The thing is... that I read in several interviews that the band members don't like to (or they even might have said they never) listen to their own albums after threy're released.

Well, I'm not sure how to phrase this, but... If you don't create your albums for yourselves then why are you creating them? Isn't the music supposed to be enjoyable to you too? It seems very important to me that a band will enjoy listening to their own music. What kind of music are they making if not the kind they're supposed like? Who's supposed to listen to it if they don't?

Mostly I just find it strange (and yes, I'm aware that they preform and rehearse their songs quite a lot, but I don't think it's te same). I would surely be glad to know if there's some philosophy standing behind this or is it just because they don't like listening to it...

Don't get me wrong, of course I want them to continue what they're doing, I'm just very curious.

So, as you can see I got what I wanted. I can't say I'm really satisfied with the answer. But it is the answer. What can I do?... Kind of a preception-breaking answer, but these are also important, aren't they?
Moreover, Niklas said it might not be the case for the rest of the band, so that's a bit of a comfort too.
I don't think I really changed my opinion on the subject, just became more aware of how it works for many artists...

It really might have sounded like I gave up on my opinion after defending it so much against all of you. Sorry about that, but as I just said it's not exactly the case. I really enjoyed this argument, as I've said.
 
Wow.. didn't know DT members post here... jihaw :)
Anyways, you said it all before.. and it all made sense, but you just guessed everything untill Niklas explained how things are. And that's why Blind Tranquillity reacted in that way, that is, claimed to have THE answer.. for it was actually give by Niklas.
Just to keep it a bit more happier for BT, in an interview for a Croatian e-zine, Mikael said that he listened to their new album over 1000 times and that he still didn't get bored of it. That's normal - it's your new "baby" and you can't get enough of it. I'm still sure he'll like it even if it won't be in his CD player so often.

Well, I'm just glad Niklas answered... Greetings from Croatia and you can come to Pula anytime ;)
 
Blind Tranquillity said:
Wow, someone that actually kinda defence me AND gives good news!

Thanks a lot TheNewBuild. It really does give me great comfort.

Hehehe, no problem ;) You were so cute in your urge to explain what bothers you.. Glad I could make it better... or where you just ironic? :p
 
Siren said:
Omg, now that Niklas replied and said that you started an interesting discussion you can die happy.
It's funny how so many people basically said the same things over and over, and all it took for you to change your mind was the reply of a DT member.

Lol, exactly :Smug:

Another thing that was funny, the post was made by Caotico?
Yet everyone feels the urge to adres to him with his name (omg you know his name! Well done! Its in every interview, on every cd case...Ah you know. (edit: Why not "Mr. Sundin" next time eh? Who knows,..*shuts up* Where did all that come from so suddenly :err: ) What the hell.
(tho the av gives a hint ..but then, it doesnt have to)


@TheNewBuild: Does your ceiling differ much from mine? :p
 
I want to thank Hitori, Blue Moon, Wazoo, my mom, my director and God. I will remember this moment forever. *snif* :'D