tattoo question

Tyra said:
3. Odin has two ravens, Hugin and Munin, but the symbol in the picture is an often used symbol from a popular asatru website. The tat that's been copied in the pic is their logo. I think it's Wodens Harrow's site, but I can't remember right now. Google them, and there you might find the origin of the symbol with the three ravens. Someone bought me a bracelet with the same three ravens, and I have since seen it for sale as a Celtic bracelet...
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I can't say for sure where the owner of the tatoo got his image, but I suspect it would be a web site similar to this:

http://www.angelfire.com/on/Wodensharrow/symbols2.html

Tyra said:
4. Yes, be very sure to respect the numbers. Be sure why you're putting three ravens on there before you do. Be REALLY sure that you THINK before you put a Valknot on your skin, for damn sure. Do not put one on there unless you are really sure that A. you really are one of Odin's warriors and are fully ready to die today, and B. are really ready to defend yourself and your choice in tat, as the Valknot in some parts of this world has been used as a symbol for right-wing supremacists. I have an aegismundr tat myself, which to the best of my knowledge does not symbolize any particular political group, and I still have to explain that I am not a nazi quite often. I see that as a teaching op, but you might get sick of it...
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I thought about getting a Valknot tatoo, but I know I'm not worthy. I would really like to be. I do have a Valknot pendant necklace, though. I wear my Thor's hammer more often than not. I know what you're saying about the racism thing, too, which was another reason I am thinking really long and hard about what tattoo I may get (if I can sedate the wife long enough to keep her occupied while I have it done.)
 
If you do not like racists, why submit to them and not use the symbols they claim? I would instantly try to take back something I feel I have more right to than someone else, and if John Doe Idiot thinks I'm a racist then let him. Ok, I know the sunwheel may be a bit too hard at this stage, but there are extremely few other symbols which have burned itself that deep into the minds of non-heathens.
 
TheLastWithPaganBlood said:
If you do not like racists, why submit to them and not use the symbols they claim? I would instantly try to take back something I feel I have more right to than someone else, and if John Doe Idiot thinks I'm a racist then let him. Ok, I know the sunwheel may be a bit too hard at this stage, but there are extremely few other symbols which have burned itself that deep into the minds of non-heathens.
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That is an excellent point, but living in "politically-correct" America you have to be careful. I would rather people know what I'm about at first glance, rather than having to explain it.
 
TheLastWithPaganBlood said:
WHich symbols did you have in mind?
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Well, for now the only one that really is sticking in my head is the Valknot. I'm also leaning toward something with a wolf motiff, as that seems to be what would be associated with my spirit form.

I do know that the hammer is very closely tied to white supremacy, and being cliche really doesn't interest me all that much as a tatoo even though I have a Mjollnir pendant (which has a wolf on it.) I got it here: http://www.odin.org/th800.htm

Other than that, I'm not really overly concerned about it. It's just the part about it being a permanent addition to your flesh that concerns me. Who's to say that 10-20 years from now it turns into some kind of symbol you don't want to be associated with? Case in point, the rainbow used to not have anything to do with homosexuality, yet now it's a standard. Purple triangles are also associated with homosexuality, so who's to say that a twisted version of the Valknut would end up being the same way?

I just don't want to give out a message other than what I am trying to project, both now and years from now.
 
TheLastWithPaganBlood said:
If you do not like racists, why submit to them and not use the symbols they claim? I would instantly try to take back something I feel I have more right to than someone else, and if John Doe Idiot thinks I'm a racist then let him. Ok, I know the sunwheel may be a bit too hard at this stage, but there are extremely few other symbols which have burned itself that deep into the minds of non-heathens.
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Well, I thought about that a lot, because I really wanted to put a hammer on my arm just as much as I wanted to put the aegismundr on there. I agree with you that we need to take those symbols back. In the long run, though, I chose the aegismundr because I decided that it suited me better and defined my feelings and who I was at the time better than the hammer.
Having said that, I must point out to you that it happens quite often that people punch first, ask later. One of my best friends has two very small swastikas on some armour, one on each shoulder, that he used to use in the SCA. He no longer uses it, because he found that they were "punishment magnets" - nobody on an SCA battlefield will stop to ask what your political stance is, or your religious stance (He's actally asatru and completely not nazi, and should have every right to wear the symbols of his people) before they thwack you in the noggin with a really large piece of rattan...:grin: As a rule, people at curbstomping parties also do not stop to ask how you feel about Odin, and neither do prospective employers (who still won't hire you because you wear a very pretty Mjöllner amulet, never mind a tat). Then there are symbols that are such hot-buttons that they will just instantly turn people's stomachs and make them quite afraid of you or turn them off of you just by you wearing them. Scientific experiment: Put on a T-shirt with a large swastika print, go to the local bar and try to pick up your average chick. Try the same a week later, sans swastika. Guaranteed quicker w/o!
I suppose you have to choose how badly you want to fit in, how worried you are about getting the shit kicked out of you and how soon you think you'll get sick of having to explain yourself. When you have kids, like I do, you also have to take into account if they will be ostercised because of your tat. Mine get it just because I have a tat, never mind because of the symbol itself!
 
yllmar said:
Other than that, I'm not really overly concerned about it. It's just the part about it being a permanent addition to your flesh that concerns me. Who's to say that 10-20 years from now it turns into some kind of symbol you don't want to be associated with? Case in point, the rainbow used to not have anything to do with homosexuality, yet now it's a standard. Purple triangles are also associated with homosexuality, so who's to say that a twisted version of the Valknut would end up being the same way?quote]

Weyerhauser, which is a very large North American company that produces, for example, paper products, uses the valknot as their logo. All their products, which includes my printer paper, come in large cardboard boxes with large valknots printed on the wrapper. Completely cluesless of them, funny for us, but again, could be irritating if you get a tat and repeatedly have to explain why you're running around with a Weyerhauser logo on your chest...

Pagan:The ottala rune is another symbol that the supremacists have taken over completely. It will get an instant reaction over here. It' s actually worse than Mjöllnir, because there are quite a few people who are not racists that have Mjöllnir tats, and people are starting to become aware of that (as in "we've almost won it back"), whereas 9 out of 10 ottala tatties will be found on actual nazis. It is the new symbol of the nazis, displayed on the red banner on a white circle exactly like the swastika used to be, as the swastika has been outlawed as a symbol in some countries and they need some sort of banner to march under.
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Ottala and Elhaz are both taken over by racists. i have an Ottala keychain :D

and yeah, the Mjollnir is no longer seen as a racist sign in my opinion. of course many racists purchase them but its not seen as a racist sign.

but i believe the real replacement for the swastika is the simple celtic cross or suncross. just an equal sided cross with the circle in it. i've seen these red nazi flags with that suncross instead of the swastika.
 
Tyra said:
yllmar said:
Other than that, I'm not really overly concerned about it. It's just the part about it being a permanent addition to your flesh that concerns me. Who's to say that 10-20 years from now it turns into some kind of symbol you don't want to be associated with? Case in point, the rainbow used to not have anything to do with homosexuality, yet now it's a standard. Purple triangles are also associated with homosexuality, so who's to say that a twisted version of the Valknut would end up being the same way?
Click to expand...

Weyerhauser, which is a very large North American company that produces, for example, paper products, uses the valknot as their logo. All their products, which includes my printer paper, come in large cardboard boxes with large valknots printed on the wrapper. Completely cluesless of them, funny for us, but again, could be irritating if you get a tat and repeatedly have to explain why you're running around with a Weyerhauser logo on your chest...
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And there you have it, my point exactly. Thanks Tyra. I had no idea that Weyerhauser was doing that.
 
Tyra said:
Pagan:The ottala rune is another symbol that the supremacists have taken over completely.
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I have to ask...

I googled the ottala rune, and I can't find anything on it. What does it look like? Pardon my ignorance, but I'm very curious.
 
Do you mean the othala rune? I think ottala is false...

Othala:

Runic_letter_othalan.png
 
Yeah its Othala, i spelt it like Tyra "Ottala" cause i thought it was another way of writing it, knowing that Tyra often writes words in the swedish way with weird "ä î æè" signs :p
it must have just been a typo error.
 
You could spell it either way as the spelling of our forefathers wasn't written in stone (it was carved! ok bad pun I know...). People with different dialects spell it differently. In swedish it would probably be Odal. And it fits very well to nationalists, because it odal means something like earth, allodium, noble. The earth or the things you inherit... And yeah a 'celtic cross' means the same thing as the swastika/sunwheel, so there's really no difference, just people donät get all upset when they see it. Ok some do, especially if its black on a circle of white on a red banner but...

Funny anecdote: In Chinatown, Manhattan, I saw an asian lady with a swastika on her T-shirt and some Yoga school stuff on it, but ofcourse noone cared. But, sadly, as a European wearing that symbol the same sympathy would not be shown. It's interesting though, the sunwheel pretty much exists all around the world.
 
Ah, ok. That explains it, different dialect thing.

Thanks for the post, Blutaar. Saves me from having to look it up with the correct spelling.

TheLastWithPaganBlood said:
It's interesting though, the sunwheel pretty much exists all around the world.
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Ok, so that leads up to the next question. What is the significance of the sunwheel? It just looked like a Nordic symbol to me...

(edit: Found this site that explains why the Othala is a symbol used in National Socialism: http://www.sunnyway.com/runes/meanings.html#othalam)
 
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