The diet choice thread

[crillemannen]

One of the biggest things for me, aside from taste, is that I generally just do not feel satiated or satisfied without meat in my diet. I dated a girl and tried every meat-substitute possible while trying to cook things for her (because virtually every good dish I know how to make well features meat), and while some of them tasted ok (texture was never quite there), they all left me wanting to eat way more of the non-meat dish than I would have if the same thing had meat in it.

I totally agree


Congratz to epic 10k posts!!!

 

[JeffTD]

Holy fuck I have no life. How the hell did I join this forum at 13?

 

[DanLights]

Well this descended into vego elitism rather quickly.

This thread was created to discuss the reasons of our dietary choices, I'm sorry if I'm being "elite" by expressing my reasons and giving supporting arguments to it. This is a mature discussion as far as I'm concerned, so please go suck a cock elsewhere if you're not going to add to it.

Now I will respond to some points I find interesting:

personally I think though one wouldn't need to stop eating meat, greatly reducing the consume would be enough.
Eating less but better meat basically...I think I allready wrote that in the last post though.

See this is where there's a discrepancy, seeing as you're not a nutritionist and have given no supporting studies/scientific papers/hypothesis by reputable scientists, you can't say something like "personally I think it's healthy enough to do this and that" because what's healthy is not an opinion, it's a fact. I'm no nutritionist either, but it is nowadays considered scientific fact that animal protein intake is highly (and I mean HIGHLY) correlated with coronary heart disease and many types of cancer growth including liver, prostate and breast, among others. Eat meat, you feed the carcinogens in your body, making more and more likely the appearance of a malign tumour aka Cancer. Quit eating meat, and it actually shrinks, many studies has shown that it can even be greatly reversed, also in the case of diabetic people, they've been known to go off their meds after changing to a whole foods 100% plant based diet.

I don't quite get why you write that (even if I understand the following paragraph), but I know that a lot of times I don't get your posts
My thought on that is: if we evolved to meat devouring killing machines well...either it will work or it won't. I also think it won't work cause it destroys as and our planet in the long run, but I'm pretty pessimistic on the rationality of humanity as whole. People don't even manage to stop killing and harming themselfes everyday, how do you expect a majority of them to see that it may be a moral dilemma to kill animals to get their meat?

I can certainly agree with you on this, I don't expect most people to see a moral dilemma with killing animals for food, as an atheist I know morality is a very personal thing when it comes to it, and the fact that you think it's the same to kill an animal than to kill a plant as I said above is your opinion and your personal morality, I disagree with it but hey, that's MY personal opinion against yours, nothing to discuss there.

I don't have a problem with eating all kinds of animals, domestic or not.
Ape I don't know, maybe would feel a bit weird.
I don't think one should differ between animals if you are ok with eating them in general. The only reason we don't eat cats and dogs too is that they are more usefull running around alive (shepert, chasing mice and stuff) and don't give as much meat as a cow or a pig.
I always hate it when people bash other cultures for eating or not eating specific animals/things.

Again, completely agree. When I ate meat, I ate all kinds of animals, and I certainly would've eaten dog or cat or whatever if given the chance, distinguishing eating different kinds of animals as inhumane or humane is pure and simple Speciesism, and vegans most certainly fight against that as much as you do with this comment, we're just on the other side of it, you say one species isn't more important than the other so you justify eating all, we think the same so we can't justify eating any.

See, that's what I meant with hypocritically viewpoints on the topic.
Sentient or not doesn't matter because you still ending life.
A bolt to the head is far too fast for the cow to notice the pain, so if it was because of inflicting pain to animals then you shouldn't have a problem eating meat from a happy farm cow. My guess is that that cow had less problems and pain in it's life than the both of us together

If it was only about the pain then what if we start breeding cows that don't feel pain? Ok to eat them then because they don't feel pain and are like plants?
So it is ok to eat the legs of a man in a wheelchair cause he can't feel the pain when you cut off the leg (leaving the cannibal aspect aside now though lol) ?

When I mentioned pain and suffering, I said both physical and psychological pain, cows, pigs and chickens suffer psychologically in a very similar manner to humans.

Yes, you're killing it because it's tasty and you want to eat it!
Same goes for a potatoplant!

Again, if you want to decide that it's the same to kill a plant than an animal that's your choice, but you know that there is a HUGE biological difference between animals and plants that certainly warrants different treatment, I can't see that as specieism based on the facts. And again, the philosophy of most vegans is to do as little harm as possible. Eating meat kills much more plants AND the animal than eating the same amount in plants, and we certainly can't survive on rocks, we need life to give life, there's no way around that so far, I just choose to respect other life as much as I can. I don't feel superior to other by this either, it's my personal choice and I'm happy with it.

(body is not as much of a pussy as you may think).

As far as I've researched on the subject, the body is much more of a pussy than you may think.

Sooooo I guess I come across as the crazy plant lady now lol
But hopefully you guys got what I mean.

Not really, justifying eating meat by giving the "plants suffer too" argument is very typical and doesn't make you look like a plant lover at all

I agree that ability to feel pain is an arbitrary criteria for morality of killing something/someone.

I disagree, what reason if not that? Or just kill everything? Except humans, of course. But why humans then? Because we are better than animals?

I don't get why vegan (or vegeterian, or whatever) guys have to always point out that being vegeterian is more healthy (if done right). I don't think that any meat eater in their right mind argues that eating a lot of meat is healthier, the whole point is that meat is fucking awesome and much tastier. Are you really suggesting that people should stop doing things that are potentially harmful to their health even if they enjoy them? You do know that then we pretty much wouldn't be able to do anything enjoyable.
Also there's this thing called moderation. Eating meat doesn't mean eating 5 steaks a day, I'm pretty sure a person can enjoy eating meat once or twice a week and still live a healthy long life.

Again, you say "I'm sure" when you're not. You have probably done absolutely no research on the subject, you have your "personal scientific opinion" based on being raised by the "personal scientific opinion" of the people who raised you who also had no clue about the subject.

But even if that wasn't true, for me personally, a life without eating meat would be a shitty life anyway.

You don't know that because you've never even possibly tried to find out how it's like. Is lunch really the most important thing in your life? Would your life really warrant suicide because you don't eat meat? That to me suggests you might have a very sad, boring and pathetic life with nothing to look forward to than to lunch. And I know you don't have that life, because you're a grown man with passions and reasons to live beyond lunch and dinner, so don't pretend it's the pillar of your existence.
For you Kimon, this:

You don't seem to know the difference between doing something you like even though it's less healthy, or eating something you like even though you know it's going to give you heart disease and/or cancer eventually, while eating things that (in my opinion of course, I understand not everyone will agree) are equally or more delicious will lower risk to those diseases to virtually none plus giving you a longer life and better quality of life throughout (more vitality, better mood, etc.). But take my word for it, take these dudes' word: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study_(book)

Again, and again, I'm not trying to convince anyone to convert, I'm simply defending my eating and lifestyle choices because this thread was made for this reason, also trying to fight both ignorance and flatulence at the same time.

 

[SocialNumb]

I can say one thing about being a vegan, being that I have been for years and years. (for health reasons) It's a pain in the ass! It takes a lot of work to be honest. You gotta study your ass off and then put it into practice. Sometimes I got to the point where I'd take a whole day and prepare what I'm going to eat for next two weeks and doing it that way tends to get repetitive, choice wise, just for the convenience of not having to slave in the kitchen for hours everyday. I mean the quick stuff, for me, is like eating like squirrel. Well in my experience anyways. It was easier when the nutritionist did all the cooking for me but that got expensive fast. It's like my whole life was spent thinking about food.

It's way easier to shove a damn burger down your throat and I can't deny it taste fucking great. The vegan substitutes just do not compare in flavor. I would eat that shit for the sake of triggering a memory of what a burger really tastes like. Honestly though, yuk.

 

[crillemannen]

People can argue how much they want about vegetarian food is so much healthier but im just gonna say, Kebab, Hamburger. So freakin good!! Can't live without em!! haha

 

[Mago]

See this is where there's a discrepancy, seeing as you're not a nutritionist and have given no supporting studies/scientific papers/hypothesis by reputable scientists, you can't say something like "personally I think it's healthy enough to do this and that" because what's healthy is not an opinion, it's a fact. I'm no nutritionist either, but it is nowadays considered scientific fact that animal protein intake is highly (and I mean HIGHLY) correlated with coronary heart disease and many types of cancer growth including liver, prostate and breast, among others. Eat meat, you feed the carcinogens in your body, making more and more likely the appearance of a malign tumour aka Cancer. Quit eating meat, and it actually shrinks, many studies has shown that it can even be greatly reversed, also in the case of diabetic people, they've been known to go off their meds after changing to a whole foods 100% plant based diet.

True that, but I don't pull statements out of my ass dude.
I've read up on that subject, and come to studies that differ in outcomes.
Sure colesterol goes down when you quit eating meat, but you can maintain a level considered healthy. Not by me, but my scietific dudes!
I addmit tho that it has been some time since I dove deeply into the subject, so if I mix things up here then I stand corrected.
It may also be that we're talking about different kinds of outcome, iE if cancer and all sorts of stuff come from the meat itself or all the shit added to the animal food in order to be able to produce meat in those masses as we do now.
But after all the human body IS able to work with meat as small part of the fuel, we were also built that way.

When I mentioned pain and suffering, I said both physical and psychological pain, cows, pigs and chickens suffer psychologically in a very similar manner to humans.

yeah and? Have you actually been to a small farm in your life and spend a few days there working? I'm even less of a pet psychatrist than I am a nutriest, but those chickens, pigs and cows I saw looked really happy and in no psychostress.
Mass breeding however, totally different story.
If the meat consume goes down to be able to produce meat in non mass breeding ways then the pain argument becomes invalid, that's my point.
If everyone quit then it would too of course, beeing the more radical and better way for the whole eco-system for sure.

Again, if you want to decide that it's the same to kill a plant than an animal that's your choice, but you know that there is a HUGE biological difference between animals and plants that certainly warrants different treatment, I can't see that as specieism based on the facts. And again, the philosophy of most vegans is to do as little harm as possible. Eating meat kills much more plants AND the animal than eating the same amount in plants, and we certainly can't survive on rocks, we need life to give life, there's no way around that so far, I just choose to respect other life as much as I can. I don't feel superior to other by this either, it's my personal choice and I'm happy with it.

That's where your reseach lacks.
The point is that there is NO biologic difference between plants and animals when it comes to the term "life".
So it's not me deciding it's different, it's a biological fact.

As far as I've researched on the subject, the body is much more of a pussy than you may think.

Again, seems we've read different papers, or papers sponsored by different companies.

Not really, justifying eating meat by giving the "plants suffer too" argument is very typical and doesn't make you look like a plant lover at all

If you read my post again then you'll see that I acutally didn't write this, because a) there's still to do research about it and b) it doesn't matter for my argumentation at all.
I also didn't need to write it because of justifing eating meat, I don't see the need to justify or not justify (what's the negative of that mr english teacher? ) eating meat. We are able to eat meat (again, as far as I know from reading into the subject, you can correct me on that if I've missed some researches or was reading biased stuff), but that certainly doesnt mean we need to eat it (that I know for sure).

I disagree, what reason if not that? Or just kill everything? Except humans, of course. But why humans then? Because we are better than animals?

Not pointed at me but anyway:
I don't think we are better than animals (quite the oposite acutally, I think we are the worst of all animals) & eating inner-species is a dumb thing to do from an evolutionary point of view, if it's not absolutely necessary (fuck that word ugh).

Again, and again, I'm not trying to convince anyone to convert, I'm simply defending my eating and lifestyle choices because this thread was made for this reason, also trying to fight both ignorance and flatulence at the same time.

at the last sentence.
Again, don't get me wrong cause I allready wrote in the veggie thread:
I admire people who are strong enough to change their life and ultimatly the life of others to the better.
As I wrote above, globally a great thing for the eco system would be to ban meat/convince everyone that you should not eat it.


EAT DA POOPOO!

 

[DanLights]

the poo poo video has changed my life

 

[JeffTD]

It's dishonest at best and bullshit at worst to say that eating meat causes cancer and coronary heart disease. There's a difference between correlation and causation and there's a difference between corn-fed pink slime ground beef and grass-fed beef from a local source.

Also, I'm really not understanding the "speciesism" argument. Who cares? It's a normal practice. The "pigs are smarter than dogs" argument is a total crock - I don't chose my pets based on intelligence, and I certainly don't chose my food based on a lack thereof. Thousands of years of directed evolution have made dogs incredibly loving and loyal animals, not to mention they're cute as fuck and fun to play with. Ever tried to go for a hike with a pig? Throw it a frisbee? Have it sit on your lap while you watch tv? No - they're relatively useless aside from being eaten. That's why they still exist.

 

[Line666]

Thousands of years of directed evolution have made dogs incredibly loving and loyal animals, not to mention they're cute as fuck and fun to play with. Ever tried to go for a hike with a pig? Throw it a frisbee? Have it sit on your lap while you watch tv?

 

[Keregioz]

Again, you say "I'm sure" when you're not. You have probably done absolutely no research on the subject, you have your "personal scientific opinion" based on being raised by the "personal scientific opinion" of the people who raised you who also had no clue about the subject.

I am sure because I see people that are not vegetarians in their 80's or 90's every day (I'm sure you do too). Why do I need to do a scientific research?

You don't know that because you've never even possibly tried to find out how it's like. Is lunch really the most important thing in your life? Would your life really warrant suicide because you don't eat meat? That to me suggests you might have a very sad, boring and pathetic life with nothing to look forward to than to lunch. And I know you don't have that life, because you're a grown man with passions and reasons to live beyond lunch and dinner, so don't pretend it's the pillar of your existence.

Well, for some people (me included) food has a more important role in their life than for others. It may be because they live a sad, pathetic, boring life but that's the way it is. (I'm not taking offense on this specific remark btw, I know what you mean and I agree).

You don't seem to know the difference between doing something you like even though it's less healthy, or eating something you like even though you know it's going to give you heart disease and/or cancer eventually, while eating things that (in my opinion of course, I understand not everyone will agree) are equally or more delicious will lower risk to those diseases to virtually none plus giving you a longer life and better quality of life throughout (more vitality, better mood, etc.). But take my word for it, take these dudes' word: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study_(book)

I'm perfectly aware of the differences. You seem to presume stuff about me without taking into account that each person can be completely different, can enjoy completely different things in a completely different way and have completely different priorities (I'm not talking only about food obviously).

 

[::XeS::]

In my opinion the right way is to eat natural foods. If you dig meat, eat at leas good meat and not shitty processed meat....and the same with everything.
Veganism can be a moral choice but I know people that being vegan has lot more energy and live way better.
One thing.....before criticize something you have to try it. I don't say to a vegan "you're an idiot" because if he lives better and happier being a vegan....good for him
p.s. I'm not vegan
p.p.s.
http://www.vegancalisthen-x.com

 

[Skinny Viking]

I'm a vagitarian

 

[Mutant]

The "pigs are smarter than dogs" argument is a total crock - I don't chose my pets based on intelligence, and I certainly don't chose my food based on a lack thereof. Thousands of years of directed evolution have made dogs incredibly loving and loyal animals, not to mention they're cute as fuck and fun to play with. Ever tried to go for a hike with a pig? Throw it a frisbee? Have it sit on your lap while you watch tv? No - they're relatively useless aside from being eaten. That's why they still exist.

It is always better to get your facts straight before you say something...
A slightly different breed, most probably genetically compatible enough to be crossbred with normal pigs you would find on a farm:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the difference in character is in upbringing it as an object (or total lack of any upbringing) vs upbringing it with love as a friend or even a family member.
Same story with people raised by animals in the forest or by alcoholic abusive parents that would lock them up in a cage in a dark room - they will NOT grow up to be what you would call a normal human being you could make friends with.

 

[infest]

Not jumping sides here --- and this might be completely non relevant to topic --- but consumption of meat is one of the reasons why we are even here. It's pretty well known that eating meat in the dawn of our evolution allowed us to grow a larger brain and possibly to reproduce faster and more efficiently. In this day and age, of course, there are other dietary options and everyone can eat whatever they want to. Just an interesting point, IMHO.

 

[Trevoire520]

The planet's already considered overpopulated, and we all want people to live longer by becoming vegetarians? Madness I tell you!

 

[JeffTD]

It is always better to get your facts straight before you say something...
A slightly different breed, most probably genetically compatible enough to be crossbred with normal pigs you would find on a farm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_cOo8VV6O4
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and the difference in character is in upbringing it as an object (or total lack of any upbringing) vs upbringing it with love as a friend or even a family member.
Same story with people raised by animals in the forest or by alcoholic abusive parents that would lock them up in a cage in a dark room - they will NOT grow up to be what you would call a normal human being you could make friends with.

Do you always have to be so smug? I said relatively useless, not "there isn't a single pig in the world people don't treat like a pet."

Come on man, I've seen Babe and Charlotte's Web. Don't get your panties in a twist just because we called you off your textured vegetable protein high horse.

 

[Mutant]

LOL

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_cOo8VV6O4

Yum.

 

[Skinny Viking]

Do you always have to be so smug? I said relatively useless, not "there isn't a single pig in the world people don't treat like a pet."

Come on man, I've seen Babe and Charlotte's Web. Don't get your panties in a twist just because we called you off your textured vegetable protein high horse.

RADIANT

 

[Line666]

Do you always have to be so smug? I said relatively useless, not "there isn't a single pig in the world people don't treat like a pet."

Come on man, I've seen Babe and Charlotte's Web. Don't get your panties in a twist just because we called you off your textured vegetable protein high horse.

Don't worry man, the guys a bit nuts but we'll all have to forgive him for his whatever missing inside his melon, he's just in a bit of a pickle cos life gave him lemons so he failed to bring home the bacon. Hell he's so bananas he's not even the apple of his mothers eye because she just likes Cox.

Nevermind though and lettuce return to the issue at hand because the sole fruit of his labors will be to construct another pear shaped argument before he continues to toss salad.