The diet choice thread

[DanLights]

No dude, no. You're like 20 years too late to post that.

Edit: I mean the pyramid

 

[~BURNY~]

Don't say no to Mutant, you're in for three more pages of (weird) argument made of sophisticated ass backward reasoning .

 

[Mutant]

What's the background of the morality scale?

I am not sure i understand the question (language barrier ?).
What kind of a background do you mean ?

It is about a choice of killing x, or y to get z amount of nutrients to be able to stay alive.

A moral question to vegetarians and vegans:
It is possible to clone single body parts, so would you eat a cloned piece of muscle regardless if it was cloned from human or animal DNA ?
I mean not meat cut from a fully grown cloned body, but just for example a tricep muscle, so no killing involved except for killing living cells and no pain felt because there was no nervous system.

If i had to, i would even though i hate the taste of meat.

 

[JeffTD]

If i had to, i would even though i hate the taste of meat.

This is an odd distinction. Are you saying that if you had to (for survival, I'm assuming you mean), you would not eat meat cut from a once-living human/animal?

 

[Mutant]

I meant "if i had to" as opposed to "if i felt like doing it", or "i would love to".

In life or death situation i would even consider killing and eating a man (can you admit you would too ?), but i would rather die than do the same to a child...

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

So was racism ages ago, and sexism, and stoning people to death for stupid shit

I guess it comes down to whether or not you hold a chicken or cows life as highly as your own.

I personally don't. Nor do I wrestle with it morally, to each his own though.

 

[Vicioushead]

I've started cutting down on how much meat I consume of late, not so much for ethical reasons as most of the meat available here comes from local farms. For me, it's a health thing. Consuming less meat can only be a good thing.

Each to their own though eh?

 

[JeffTD]

I meant "if i had to" as opposed to "if i felt like doing it", or "i would love to".

In life or death situation i would even consider killing and eating a man (can you admit you would too ?), but i would rather die than do the same to a child...

Just making sure you were at least mildly sane - I would definitely consider eating a man if survival depended upon it.

As for children... I hate children. If the last thing I'm going to see/hear before I die is a child then I'll kill it and not eat it just for some peaceful last moments.

 

[DanLights]

I guess it comes down to whether or not you hold a chicken or cows life as highly as your own.

I personally don't. Nor do I wrestle with it morally, to each his own though.

And that's exactly the meaning of speciesism (or however the fuck that's spelled). I certainly do my best to value the life of every animal equally and not take species as a factor to consider some "better" than others but that's a concept that's easier said than done. I can't say I cry over a dead jellyfish, I respect it out of principle but find it hard to empathize as much as with non-human mammals, which are clearly easier to "feel" due to their similarities with humans.

I agree though, to each his own, morality is a very personal thing (or at least it should be)

 

[bryan_kilco]

I rarely ever eat "healthy". Almost always meat, potato, shit. Maybe it was because I hated veggies as a little kid, and my parents tried force feeding me brustel sprouts? *shrug*

Steak, bratwursts, mashed taters, turkey, chicken, pork of almost any kind.....YUM.

Not a healthy diet at all. And having just turned 30 a few days ago, it's about time I seriously start watching what I eat.

 

[Decimator]

Heres a different story

I have had pain in the joints of my fingers and toes for more or less 2 years. Lately walking (or even putting your shoes on) became difficult because of the pains. At first the pain was only in my fingers and was misdiagnosed as RSI. Doctors told that the x-rays do not _yet_ show any damage, but surely when the inflammation lasts this long they will appear at some point. Only help was daily dose of painkillers.

3 weeks ago I dropped off all dairy, eggs, and red meat. So, pretty much like vegan diet, but I still eat fish. Joint pain started easing off after 1 week. Now after 3 weeks I mostly don't even notice any pain. Few joints are still swollen, but painless in normal operation. I'm very excited to see if they will heal completely, yay . I also have had mild case of psoriasis for a long time (joint pain may be linked as psoriatic arthritis) and this has been better also. On top of that I have been takin daily meds to my allergies for over 10 years (non food related allergies). Now I need to take only every other day.

Of course at this short period of time I cannot yet say if this is the cure for any of these things but I'm very glad that I tried this and for sure are going to continue on the same way. Let's see what happens!

Overall I'll have to say I feel great in many ways. Walking and running without pain is of course awesome! I've found a shitload of new foods and it is fun to try new recipes.

On a downside I have to say that I am a bit surprised that how aggressive people are toward vegetarists or vegans. Even some of my friends. Never tried to convert anyone and from the start I knew that this may be the kind of subject that you should keep to yourself

 

[TravisW]

I am not sure i understand the question (language barrier ?).
What kind of a background do you mean ?

It is about a choice of killing x, or y to get z amount of nutrients to be able to stay alive.

A moral question to vegetarians and vegans:
It is possible to clone single body parts, so would you eat a cloned piece of muscle regardless if it was cloned from human or animal DNA ?
I mean not meat cut from a fully grown cloned body, but just for example a tricep muscle, so no killing involved except for killing living cells and no pain felt because there was no nervous system.

If i had to, i would even though i hate the taste of meat.

That's precisely what I was asking - what is the basis for the "morality scale" that you had posted a couple of pages. back. You answered it here.

Personally, I tend to follow an "eat what thou wilt" approach to dietary consumption. People whose consciences deny them the ability to eat certain foods without guilt should follow their consciences. Those whose consciences allow them to eat whatever they want should do so within the bounds of what functions within human society. Cannibalism tends not to work well within most functioning human societies because it crosses a few lines (murder being the most obvious).

Eating "companion animals" crosses considerably fewer lines than cannibalism, and I'm not morally opposed to somebody eating a dog or cat in and of itself, but in places where it isn't considered appropriate, it can strain the dynamics of human society due to the functions those animals serve within that society. The present arguments in the USA over slaughtering horses come to mind in this instance.

Eating "food animals" crosses WAY fewer social lines than eating people or household pets, and this tends to be relatively firmly planted in the "socially acceptable" realm.

I personally have no problem with people deciding to limit their meat consumption, limit themselves to seafood, dairy, or go totally vegan. Any disagreement on my end would wind up being more ideological than dietary. But if somebody is cool with me having a piece of chicken and the occasional burger, I'm cool with them abstaining.

However, I do tend to have problems with people approaching nutrition with the certainty of "modern science" when even modern nutrition science winds up disagreeing with itself every few years. Try though we might to pin down human nutritional needs to "essential this or that", the sheer variety of foods to which our bodies are adapted means that there is a massive amount of ground to cover in nutrition science. That's why it keeps changing every decade or so.

 

[DanLights]

Heres a different story

I have had pain in the joints of my fingers and toes for more or less 2 years. Lately walking (or even putting your shoes on) became difficult because of the pains. At first the pain was only in my fingers and was misdiagnosed as RSI. Doctors told that the x-rays do not _yet_ show any damage, but surely when the inflammation lasts this long they will appear at some point. Only help was daily dose of painkillers.

3 weeks ago I dropped off all dairy, eggs, and red meat. So, pretty much like vegan diet, but I still eat fish. Joint pain started easing off after 1 week. Now after 3 weeks I mostly don't even notice any pain. Few joints are still swollen, but painless in normal operation. I'm very excited to see if they will heal completely, yay . I also have had mild case of psoriasis for a long time (joint pain may be linked as psoriatic arthritis) and this has been better also. On top of that I have been takin daily meds to my allergies for over 10 years (non food related allergies). Now I need to take only every other day.

Of course at this short period of time I cannot yet say if this is the cure for any of these things but I'm very glad that I tried this and for sure are going to continue on the same way. Let's see what happens!

Overall I'll have to say I feel great in many ways. Walking and running without pain is of course awesome! I've found a shitload of new foods and it is fun to try new recipes.

On a downside I have to say that I am a bit surprised that how aggressive people are toward vegetarists or vegans. Even some of my friends. Never tried to convert anyone and from the start I knew that this may be the kind of subject that you should keep to yourself

That's great to hear man! May I ask why you decided to try the diet change? Did someone recommend you to try it? And have you considered trying dropping fish for at least a week just to see if it improves or changes?

 

[Decimator]

That's great to hear man! May I ask why you decided to try the diet change? Did someone recommend you to try it? And have you considered trying dropping fish for at least a week just to see if it improves or changes?

I was seaching for some info on arthritis and found out that diet change may or may not help. Naturally there is shitload of stuff on the interwebz that say the opposite things. Then I read your veggie thread and watched few documentaries (Fat, sick & nearly dead and forks over knives were very entertaining). I realised that without meat and dairy there is still a shitload of stuff I can eat. I had always thought that vegans only eat salad and drink grean tea haha . After that all was set, no transition, just straight to the point. Shortly my girlfriend started following the same diet, which is great

I had quit smoking a month ago and 2 weeks ago I quit drinking coffee. I guess I was somewhat addicted to coffee, because after quitting I had mild headaches for almost 2 weeks Luckily one cup of tea always relieved the headache.

In this 3 week period I have only eaten fish once. Did not make things worse at least. I'll have to review that thing later.

 

[Decimator]

Did you know that Chuck Norris is a vegetarian?

Meaning, he does not eat animals until first he puts them into vegetative state with his fists

 

[DanLights]

I was seaching for some info on arthritis and found out that diet change may or may not help. Naturally there is shitload of stuff on the interwebz that say the opposite things. Then I read your veggie thread and watched few documentaries (Fat, sick & nearly dead and forks over knives were very entertaining). I realised that without meat and dairy there is still a shitload of stuff I can eat. I had always thought that vegans only eat salad and drink grean tea haha . After that all was set, no transition, just straight to the point. Shortly my girlfriend started following the same diet, which is great

I had quit smoking a month ago and 2 weeks ago I quit drinking coffee. I guess I was somewhat addicted to coffee, because after quitting I had mild headaches for almost 2 weeks Luckily one cup of tea always relieved the headache.

In this 3 week period I have only eaten fish once. Did not make things worse at least. I'll have to review that thing later.

Awesome dude, I'm glad the thread helped, it's true when I tell my family "I don't eat meat, dairy or eggs anymore" they're all like "then what CAN you eat??" when the reality is that the variety is huge when you actually search for it.

There's a lot of contradicting and debated studies on nutrition so we can't say we're completely sure about everything, but it's undeniable how much our diet affects our health, so I wouldn't be surprised it helped with your arthritis

 

[Huckleberry]

Different diets are definitely an effective and peculiar thing. I've been on a fitness kick for the past couple of months and have been sticking to meat, veggies, and protein supplements to gain muscle mass, and I'm really satisfied with the results. I like meat too much to give that up and it just jives with me well.

Edit: it is pretty sad what they do to a lot of animals to get the meat, but I live in the city and I don't know where else to get it other than the market. Just a necessary evil I contend with because I'm not giving up meat.

 

[::XeS::]

Heres a different story

I have had pain in the joints of my fingers and toes for more or less 2 years. Lately walking (or even putting your shoes on) became difficult because of the pains. At first the pain was only in my fingers and was misdiagnosed as RSI. Doctors told that the x-rays do not _yet_ show any damage, but surely when the inflammation lasts this long they will appear at some point. Only help was daily dose of painkillers.

3 weeks ago I dropped off all dairy, eggs, and red meat. So, pretty much like vegan diet, but I still eat fish. Joint pain started easing off after 1 week. Now after 3 weeks I mostly don't even notice any pain. Few joints are still swollen, but painless in normal operation. I'm very excited to see if they will heal completely, yay . I also have had mild case of psoriasis for a long time (joint pain may be linked as psoriatic arthritis) and this has been better also. On top of that I have been takin daily meds to my allergies for over 10 years (non food related allergies). Now I need to take only every other day.

Of course at this short period of time I cannot yet say if this is the cure for any of these things but I'm very glad that I tried this and for sure are going to continue on the same way. Let's see what happens!

Overall I'll have to say I feel great in many ways. Walking and running without pain is of course awesome! I've found a shitload of new foods and it is fun to try new recipes.

On a downside I have to say that I am a bit surprised that how aggressive people are toward vegetarists or vegans. Even some of my friends. Never tried to convert anyone and from the start I knew that this may be the kind of subject that you should keep to yourself

Sounds like Gout...pain in the articulation because of high % of uric acid in the blood.

 

[Decimator]

Sounds like Gout...pain in the articulation because of high % of uric acid in the blood.

Yea, I know few poeple with gout. My symptoms do not seem exactly the same (big toes are fine, pain was continuous and quite symmetrically on both sides). I'm still not saying no, and if it is gout, then I'm surely going to the right direction

There's a lot of contradicting and debated studies on nutrition so we can't say we're completely sure about everything, but it's undeniable how much our diet affects our health, so I wouldn't be surprised it helped with your arthritis

Yep, I noticed the same when I searched for the recommended intake of vitamins etc.

 

[DanLights]

I just felt like reviving this thread to post this:



If anyone feels like discussing the morality and health issues of veganism, please do not do so until taking an hour and a half of your time to watch the whole lecture and following Q&A session (the link is at the end of the lecture video), and whether you agree with breaking laws or not, that certainly makes no difference to the points he makes.

I'm not saying he has all the answers, and it's clear he's religious due to his "preachy" way to say things (I'm not, quite anti-religious and certainly don't respect people's religious beliefs, doesn't mean I don't respect the people themselves or any other completely unrelated and independent opinions they may have), but I can certainly agree with his points and and would be happy to see any opposing opinions on this (youtube comments were retarded, so if you're giving facts please know what you're saying).

And before I get called out again for being "preachy", no one is in the obligation to post anything or open this thread or hit play to this video, your life will go on fine without ever hitting play.