The ENSLAVED thread

[Demilich]

 

[Armageddon's Child]

Sorry then, I just thought for a second that you were agreeing with me that intelligent people can still have extremely valid differences of opinion on what constitutes good music, which to me is such an obvious observation that I don't really understand how you could disprove it - let alone why anyone would want to.

"Intelligence" covers a broad spectrum of abilities. There are plenty of people who are intelligent, but lack the aptitude for the sort of abstract thinking that music demands. Others do have the aptitude, but lack either the intellectual framework necessary for listening intelligently (these are the people I seek to reach) or simply lack the motivation to make the effort.

 

[all_sins_undone]

lmao what a nazi

 

[Demilich]

That's a very ignorant way to look at something as individualistic and as expressive as art, but ok.

 

[all_sins_undone]

no no there is only one way to interpret music, it's simply good or not good. trust me im smrt

 

[Armageddon's Child]

That's a very ignorant way to look at something as individualistic and as expressive as art, but ok.

Art may be 'individualistic' in the sense that it often expresses the intensely personal, but it does so through a shared 'language' of metaphor, technique and structure. Art is as much about the mediating process - which is a collective experience - as it is about the creative moment.

 

[Demilich]

Believe what you will, but I honestly think that you will come around to this, even if it comes down to you being put in your place by someone you respect too highly to ignore.

 

[Manbient]

I find it's a complete joke that AC believes he's thought longer and harder about music and come to the "answers" to good and bad music. That can never be proven, and the only proof he has is self justified. Did it ever occur to you, AC, that Everyone ALWAYS thinks they are right? People don't continue to believe in things they don't believe are correct

What you need to do is stop listening to music and analyzing the non-musical aspects of it and instead use just your ears. When you discuss the philosophy behind the music you're no longer discussing music. Therefore, i don't think you should be allowed to say what's "good" and "bad" when you're judgement is clouded with irrelevant, non musical things.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

I actually think he is quite right in sayin that there is 'good and bad' music, but I think the 'requirements' are somewhat broader than he wants them to be.

 

[Demilich]

Did it ever occur to you, AC, that Everyone ALWAYS thinks they are right? People don't continue to believe in things they don't believe are correct

Do you honestly believe this? I don't think it to be true in the least, but I see what you're saying. When I like something, I don't think I'm right about it. When I believe something, I don't think I'm right about it. I might try to convince people, and might get frustrated with them, but in the end I know that I'm not "right" in any way that makes them "wrong."

 

[Armageddon's Child]

Believe what you will, but I honestly think that you will come around to this, even if it comes down to you being put in your place by someone you respect too highly to ignore.

I think you misunderstand (or perhaps misrepresent) my argument - intelligent people can and do have divergent opinions about music and art, there just tends to be an even stronger convergence of opinion among the intelligent (note, for instance, this thread, where the intelligent folks have generally agreed that Burzum is great, while the people who can't string a few words together coherently generally did not).

 

[Demilich]

I think that misinterpreting consensus for any semblance of objective quality is just as stupid in the case of Burzum as it is in the case of Britney Spears.

Consensus among a community allows people to feel indignant when those outside the community don't share their opinion. If we are to accept these tenets as basis for evaluating music, we might as well become a bunch of Jihadis and bomb everybody who doesn't think the way we like.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

I think that misinterpreting consensus for objective quality is just as stupid in the case of Burzum as it is in the case of Britney Spears.

Consensus isn't quality - but it is an indicator. An artist mostly favored by morons probably doesn't have much to offer, but chances are, an artist favored by intelligent folks does. The correlation is actually stronger between idiots and bad music, but the point remains.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

Consensus among a community allows people to feel indignant when those outside the community don't share their opinion. If we are to accept these tenets as basis for evaluating music, we might as well become a bunch of Jihadis and bomb everybody who doesn't think the way we like.

Now that you mention it, there is an excellent argument to be made for exterminating people who don't like Burzum...

 

[affinityband]

good god. you're one of those philosophy tools arent you?

 

[Demilich]

Consensus isn't quality - but it is an indicator. An artist mostly favored by morons probably doesn't have much to offer, but chances are, an artist favored by intelligent folks does. The correlation is actually stronger between idiots and bad music, but the point remains.

Then you have to look at your criteria for intelligent people It never ends!

 

[Armageddon's Child]

Then you have to look at your criteria for intelligent people It never ends!

The constant re-evaluation of that which you value is part of being a thoughtful human being. If you've reached a point of stasis, you might as well be six feet under, because the living stopped long ago.

 

[affinityband]

Haha you fruitcake.

aedit: Are you that justin s fellow?

 

[Demilich]

not as big a fruitcake as the one who walks into a perfectly decent conversation and tries to draw attention to himself by ridiculing one of the parties involved

@AC: Totally agreed!

 

[DOGGY]

Best albums: Vikingligr Veldi and Frost