The God Poll

[Demilich]

Language is one of the major hindrances in this discussion. We seem to keep tripping over and entangling ourselves in the language we are using. I'm especially talented at this.

Upon reading further into this, it strikes me that while I totally see where folks like Necuratul and Susperia (who I'd say fall into the category of strong atheism whereas I'd lie somewhere between weak atheism and something not too far from agnostic theism) are coming from, their arguments reflect certain logical fallacies, namely:

argument from personal conviction refers to an assertion that because one personally finds a premise unlikely or unbelievable, the premise can be assumed not to be true, or alternately that another preferred but unproven premise is true instead. Both arguments commonly share this structure: a person regards the lack of evidence for one view as constituting evidence or proof that another view is true.

I'd also have a much easier time reconciling myself with this strong atheism if it didn't seam like such a knee-jerk "fuck religion" type of reaction which seems to preclude some level of rational analysis.

 

[Krilons Resa]

The limitations of language are immense.

I see this thread slowly creeping into an epistemological based debate.

 

[skeptik]

It is illogical to accept the genuine possibility of a thing in the face of absolutely no evidence whatsoever to believe that it may be true. It has nothing to do with personal conviction. Give me a reason to believe that there may be a god other than "you can't prove that god doesn't exist" first plz.

BTW agnostics are way more fucking smug than atheists.

 

[Krilons Resa]

The entire topic of this thread is illogical. I think you are all just a bunch of retards running in circles.

 

[Demilich]

Been reading some criticism of Dawkins today - I must say, I have to get my hands on The God Delusion. This article I'm reading by Marilynne Robinson makes many interesting criticisms of his methods and exclusion of actual science in favour of very simple, far-reaching appeals to people who have already cemented themselves into atheistic ways of thinking. I'm not explicitly supporting this as I have no knowledge of its author and very little of that which it critiques, but this type of thinking grabs my attention:

]His thinking is reminiscent of logical positivism. Dawkins acknowledges no difficulty. He has a simple-as-that, plain-as-day approach to the grandest questions, unencumbered by doubt, consistency, or countervailing information.

That one particular part strikes me as it resonates with a point I kept trying to make to swizzlenuts over the past week. As I have said, I will have to look into this quite a bit more.

 

[Matt]

The fact that there's no reason to believe that there is a god.

oh ok

The entire topic of this thread is illogical. I think you are all just a bunch of retards running in circles.

!

 

[Thanatopsis123]

It is illogical to accept the genuine possibility of a thing in the face of absolutely no evidence whatsoever to believe that it may be true. It has nothing to do with personal conviction. Give me a reason to believe that there may be a god other than "you can't prove that god doesn't exist" first plz.

Are you familiar with Soren Kierkegaard?

 

[swizzlenuts]

Been reading some criticism of Dawkins today - I must say, I have to get my hands on The God Delusion. This article I'm reading by Marilynne Robinson makes many interesting criticisms of his methods and exclusion of actual science in favour of very simple, far-reaching appeals to people who have already cemented themselves into atheistic ways of thinking. I'm not explicitly supporting this as I have no knowledge of its author and very little of that which it critiques, but this type of thinking grabs my attention:



That one particular part strikes me as it resonates with a point I kept trying to make to swizzlenuts over the past week. As I have said, I will have to look into this quite a bit more.

He doesn't have much doubt because we have great models of evolution and the big bang, which makes necessity of a god so incredibly small you can dismiss it. He tackles this subject subtly in The Blind Watchmaker.

I understand what you were trying to say the whole week, but you said shit like what if evolution is wrong?! It's always good to be skeptical, but not accepting all the evidences for evolution, and many other theories, and not regarding them as fact, is wrong.

 

[Reign in Acai]

The Big Bang would be me fucking a fat broad. Shush with such nonsense. Did I come from a fish? No, where the fuck be my gills?! My balls may smell like Sashimi at the moment, but I assure you that I can not swim like a dolphin. Did I come from a monkey?!? You've seen me, do I look like a my pals?!? No, hence the big bang theory is the factual equivalent of Eve being subdued by the charisma of a serpent in a pile of autumn brush. Take your models and keister them kind sir.

Fuck Evolution, Fucking Theism, and Fuck Emo, motherfucking faggot fucks.


I;m drinking brew, now that my friend is FACTUAL AND UNDEBATABLE!

 

[swizzlenuts]

The Big Bang would be me fucking a fat broad. Shush with such nonsense. Did I come from a fish? No, where the fuck be my gills?! My balls may smell like Sashimi at the moment, but I assure you that I can not swim like a dolphin. Did I come from a monkey?!? You've seen me, do I look like a my pals?!? No, hence the big bang theory is the factual equivalent of Eve being subdued by the charisma of a serpent in a pile of autumn brush. Take your models and keister them kind sir.

Fuck Evolution, Fucking Theism, and Fuck Emo, motherfucking faggot fucks.


I;m drinking brew, now that my friend is FACTUAL AND UNDEBATABLE!

You know, you didn't come from a fish, and you didn't come from a monkey. If evolution said that, it'd be disregarded immediately.

That being said, Evolution is a fact and theory. The theory is a beautiful theory, and it's so easy, yet complex. The Big Bang theory has so much evidence for it, but it's not close to as solid as a theory of Evolution.

BTW the Theory of Evolution is a more solid theory than the Theory of Gravitivity.

 

[grazim]

Criticisms of Dawkins' writing have little bearing on the massive body of evidence supporting evolutionary theory. So what if some cunt doesn't like his books? Trying to tether biology or any other science to atheism or theism is horseshit in the first place. The very definition of the question makes the answer unknowable.

Fuck this discussion. uke:

 

[swizzlenuts]

Criticisms of Dawkins' writing have little bearing on the massive body of evidence supporting evolutionary theory. So what if some cunt doesn't like his books? Trying to tether biology or any other science to atheism or theism is horseshit in the first place. The very definition of the question makes the answer unknowable.

Fuck this discussion. uke:

Bringing Biology only makes sense, because it actually show evidence that we don't need a super powerful god, like the god of the bible.

I don't think it's stupid at all, especially because we have to get some of these crazy notions out of the public. The idea of people not living for today because they think they are going to heavy for eternity, can easily ruin our live we know we get.

 

[grazim]

the Theory of Evolution is a more solid theory than the Theory of Gravitivity.

This is crap. What scale of validity are you basing this statement on? Saying shit like this only feeds fuel to the grand fire of ignorance.

 

[Reign in Acai]

Mate, I come from a religious background so it is very fucking hard to change my ways. Currently I do have a secular outlook on life, but I haven't completely given up my roots. I truly believe that there is a grander purpose to this insufferable life which primarily consists of eating, shitting, and murdering your fellow man. There's something fucking more to it aye? I've also been at the center of moments that can not be scientifically explained and are too fucking coincidental to be deemed anything but spiritual. My religious view began in my childhood growing up which was far from peachy. My mother was a God damn pcp addict, my Uncle was addicted to Heroine, my father was behind bars for multiple thefts, and my grand parents who raised me barely had enough money to feed me pinto beans to get through the fucking day. I turned to this "imaginary" God for support during these rough times. And truth be told, whether it be a state of spirituality or euphoria is iirevelant, this belief system helped me carry on. Needless to say, I feel a sense of loyalty to it. God I'm getting drunk so please excuse my rambling. Moral of the story is this. If I believe in God and you don't who gives a shit? I sure don't! I'm not a fundamentalist Christian twat whose life goal is to save souls. I'm living this life for my own personal enjoyment and enlightenment. Whether I see an incandescent tunnel moments after my demise is moot.

Speaking of which, I have a co-worker who I'd consider a great fucking human being who witnessed just that upon crashing his automobile in to a wall at the age of 25. From that day forward his life changed forever. Shrug it off as an unconscious dream state, but fuck I don't think everyone who has experienced such a phenomena is mad.

There's something more to this life than happenstance. If I didn't believe this I'd bust a Michael Douglas and go ape shit on the world don't ye know?!?!

This beer is divine. <```` Try debunking that!

 

[grazim]

The explanations of life proposed by modern biology are far more elegant and beautiful than "eating, shitting, and murdering your fellow man", and they'll continue to become more so as long as we continue learning about the world around us.

My point is that evolutionary theory has nothing to say about the existence of god(s) unless you insist on some idiotic literal interpretation of religious scripture. Atheism and theism are the domain of philosophy.

 

[Reign in Acai]

My whole point is to each their own.

 

[grazim]

A noble concept, but if we really upheld it, we wouldn't be wasting our time posting about this crap on an internet forum in the wee hours of the morning.

 

[Captain Beard]

Don't tempt fate, or Captain Beard.

 

[grazim]

Did you ever pick up any Ghost? I think I recommended them to you a long time ago in a psych rock thread.

 

[Demilich]

Brandon, if I ever questioned evolution, I was pretty drunk and talking shit tbh