zoidberg
Mallcore Kid
^ pretty much. i dont like to question the morale values of people who lived thousands of years before me though.
The great and all powerful religion thread!
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AchrisK
Weakling
It's not exactly solid proof, no. But it is not the same as the Star Wars example. For one thing we can talk to the author of Star Wars and he will tell us it's fiction. It was presented as fiction and never claimed to be otherwise. The Bible is an historical record which has proven to be one of the most historically accurate of ancient texts. It's about real things that happened to real people in real places...in a real world.
There are theories about how much embellishment or whatever (I can't remember the proper term) takes place in how much time, and it has been said that the writing were close enough to the events to minimize that potential tendancy. Also contemporaries of the events were still alive when the writings occurred, so that if they had changed substantially, there would have been people who could have attempted to point that out. There were enough enemies of Christianity (including many Jewish religious leaders) around at the time who would have loved to quash the whole movement. So you would think they would have reported anything they could have.
Of course.
But this type of theory runs into problems when applied to Christianity.
Matt
Active Member
There is DEFINITELY no way of proving evolution either.
You don't seem to understand that the thing was written THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO and what it morally reprehensible now was not then. Beliefs, customs etc change over time.
zoidberg
Mallcore Kid
how many licks does it take to get to the center of a bible.. one, two CHOMP! the world may never know......
well, actually we do know that animals change physically over time, we dont know if we were single celled organisms or any thing like that. the world may never know...... did you know whales have pelvic bones? tell me why whales would have pelvic bones if they didnt walk at one time.
mathias said:
well, actually we do know that animals change physically over time, we dont know if we were single celled organisms or any thing like that. the world may never know...... did you know whales have pelvic bones? tell me why whales would have pelvic bones if they didnt walk at one time.
Solid proof...or scientific proof?
Scientific proof would refer to a general principle one can follow in order to attain information about the external world through observation and experimentation; with this epistemic foundation one could argue in a historical and cultural context about the validity of the bible and existence of a Christ (as there were many historically documented ones) as they see fit within a socio-religious context. But to try to test the validity of whether one man was a "OmG SuPa SPEC1aL!!" deity off of indirect proof & flawed observations that state correlations between physical reality and metaphysical bullshit is impossible. No amount of formal, informal, predicate, prepositional, mathematical, or symbolic logic can verify or validate such a statement with the evidence available.
And you can prove evolution. And if you honestly don't understand how this is true, I will then ask you to go through this site as it has a great deal of links, a fantastic and in-depth f.a.q.M and....a search function (OMG!)!
Talk Origins.org
Scientific proof would refer to a general principle one can follow in order to attain information about the external world through observation and experimentation; with this epistemic foundation one could argue in a historical and cultural context about the validity of the bible and existence of a Christ (as there were many historically documented ones) as they see fit within a socio-religious context. But to try to test the validity of whether one man was a "OmG SuPa SPEC1aL!!" deity off of indirect proof & flawed observations that state correlations between physical reality and metaphysical bullshit is impossible. No amount of formal, informal, predicate, prepositional, mathematical, or symbolic logic can verify or validate such a statement with the evidence available.
And you can prove evolution. And if you honestly don't understand how this is true, I will then ask you to go through this site as it has a great deal of links, a fantastic and in-depth f.a.q.M and....a search function (OMG!)!
Talk Origins.org
Matt
Active Member
Matt
Active Member
AchrisK
Weakling
HA! First note that I said evidence not proving and there is a gargantuan amount of evidence of evolution (see the thread).Mathiäs;6509736 said:
I do understand this. It's many Christians (not you, thankfully) who don't.Mathiäs;6509736 said:
About the Star Wars example: So people claim the Bible is not ficion. Fair enough. What about using the Iliad as evidence for Zeus? Homer claimed it was nonfiction.
Matt
Active Member
I'm not arguing the fact that the evolution did not occur (as I believe it did, and still is), but there really is no way to know for sure.
Yes there is. There is a massive amount of evidence that points to it. I guess you can't be 100% sure, but that is impossible. That doesn't make completely IMprobable things like God justified.
Mathiäs;6509824 said:
So you accept that evolution is still occurring, but cannot know for sure that it is?
As mentioned, there is a massive amount of data in favor of the existence of evolution - although you can argue that you can never know something 100%, you can still "know" it (evolution) to some degree based on the countless numbers of observations and experiments.
Justifying the existence of a deity with no real scientific evidence, indirect correlations and flawed logical thinking doesn't make any sense like it does with science due to the nature of religion and God/s. And to bring up moral relativism within a Christian context makes such justifications EVEN MORE BOGUS than before. For starters: if the book is the living word of God, to state that the statements within the book are to be changed according to human nature and will whenever mankind chooses to (be it hindsight or self reflection as a species) seems to make God out to be of little or no importance....at least his message anyway. Sure, you can chalk up the original meaning being "altered in some way" as it was given to us by proxy (Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad - take your pick) - the fact of the matter is that the language used in the translations was used for a specific reason. And to tack on the "oh well that was then and it was harder to live then than it is now" argument seems to come off as nothing more than an excuse that justifies why most Christians don't bother to keep their rigid tenets in a global inter-religious world.
Mathiäs;6509736 said:
lol, that was funny.
Evolution has been proven with fossils and other items.
What i haven't seen is proof of God.
Matt
Active Member
I know I'm contradicting myself here, but it is obvious that organisms evolve to adapt to their surroundings so evolution must be occurring presently. But we can't be 100% positive that it has always been happening.
No, there isn't. Unless of course you want to talk origin theories.
Did you know the earth is on the back of an elephant which is standing on the back of a turtle!?
also, I edited my previous post. Yay relativism within a religion that preaches universals!
Did you know the earth is on the back of an elephant which is standing on the back of a turtle!?
also, I edited my previous post. Yay relativism within a religion that preaches universals!
AchrisK
Weakling
What other items? Like dish strainers and toothpicks?
Evolutionary proof is much more complicated than you make it sound. It's actually more of a historical type of proof that relies heavily on observation and inference.
The existence of God will never be proven to anyone, and especially not to those who are convinced they know he doesn't exist.
you're right, I do know god does not exist. I do know that evolution has been proven and those who choose not to believe are only fooling themselves. btw, historical type of proof...is there any other kind?
If it happened, that means it has history.
Yeah. Observation and inference are major methods through which science understands things that are not testable.
