The newer songs

Fortis Aganoth

Fortis Aganoth

In the Frozen Dusk...
Dec 8, 2001
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I just heard the newer songs on the rereleased BWP (Still Day Beneath the Sun/Patterns in the Ivy II) and it took me a minute. I liked them, but they were different...

They were a new Opeth, godly, but realllllly different... It was the gutiars AND the vocal melodies... I love them now, i love the meoldies of each, but:

Have you noticed that on the eairler albums (Orchid/Morning Rise) hardly any riff was ever repeated, and no song had much of a structure, it just flowed beautifully? None of this Chorus, then Verse, then post verse, then chorus,e tc...

And the newer albums are recieving this kind of direction? It's still great, they are still gods, but this direction thing... Do you tihnk the new Opeth is going to be like these two songs? I believe the mellow album may be, but, who knows! I hope not, there is not as much emotion in these as before... Maybe it was the Benighted song that I got hooked to great acoutics... Anyway, what are your thoughts?
 
I wouldn't worry. People gave BWP some jabbing because there's normal song structure on one track, and repeated parts in 3 others (wow). I actually think it has less repetition than Still Life. I don't think they'll lose the "wandering song" characteristic anytime soon.
 
It seems to me people are just looking for faults within Opeth's music now.. enough already. If you don't like them anymore- don't listen. Simple as that! Its your fucking loss!
I for one look forward to just about ANYTHING they put out, they've pretty much secured their spot as my fave metal band.
 
Right. There are times I've longed for the "musical journeys" of the past, but the repeat effect in some songs (White Cluster, Drapery Falls) is all too powerful for the sense of drama in the song, even though at first you don't really associate repeating with Opeth's music...

Thinking along the lines of the story or single lyrics helps a bit, because at least on Still Life they are inseparable.
 
Just because they seem to be repeating parts does not mean that they will lose any of the creative genius that they possess. In fact, I feel as though if they can trim the fat from a song and add backbone to a song, it will only augment their [Mike's] innate ability to craft music. If you have a repeating verse/chorus/what have you, it gives the band the ability to focus on it, to make it perfect. If you combine that with Opeth's already ungodly ability, I believe that only good things can come.

I've been a fan since Morningrise, and I can say that I've increasingly enjoyed their music with each release. I love Orchid [The Twilight is My Robe being my favourite Opeth song] and Morningrise, but some of the songs just seemed like perfectly-nailed jam sessions [if that made sense]. Making a song accessible to the metal community and the making a song simply accessible are two different things.

Besides, has Mike and the gang ever given us -any- reason to doubt? No. There you have it.
 
It might also just be because the whole verse chorus thing is not part of their formulae, they might have just decided to fuck with that a bit for once and see what they could do with it. See how one of their songs turned out constructing it that way. I know with my own band this has just become the case. Some of you have downloaded the song "An Empire Torn" from my band Unthroned. This is the first song that Unthroned has ever done that has had a chorus. Because there are no vocals recorded on it yet it might be hard for you tell which bit is the chorus, then again it might be very easy to tell. I am working on the lyrics at the moment, there are going to be no versus, and I'm not sure if the chorus is Lyrically going to work how a Chorus normally would, I think I want to make it different each time the chorus riff plays. The point is there is a riff in that song that plays 3 times, and the way it's been structured totally gives it that chorus feel, which is why we'll always refer to it as the chorus riff. There are a few reasons why we have riffs repeating in that song, and why we have a chorus riff when normally we don't use any stuff like that.
The first is, basically the entire song was written by our bass player, and it was built off 2 main riffs, the intro riff, and the riff we call the chorus riff. He had very specific ideas about riffs being repeated at certain points in the song, and the song having a chorus. The other is, that song is kinda meant to have an Anthem like feel, to be uplifting. That is why the structure of that song is so so simple, and straight foward. If you listen to an actual Anthem you'll notice it's about the most simplistic piece of music you could hear, but yet if it's good it still manages to obtain a certain power, strength, and provoke some sort of feeling. The other reason we did a song like that is cause our songs aren't like that, and we hadn't done one in that manor...... so we just thought it would be cool to have a powerfull song, that was simple and straight foward in it's structure and the way it moves from start to finnish. It's a good thing to have at least one song like that on an album I reckon. So perhaps Mikael and the boys are trying to achieve similar things, who Knows. I certainly won't be fearing it will turn their art into uninspired massproduced bile anytime soon. :)
 
Enough plugging your own stuff, Trent :D (just kidding :p).


To the topic, I have complete faith in the ladz to create music that is the equal of what they've done in the past, whether it's verse/chorus or otherwise. Even though I prefer the more progressive songs, there's absolutely nothing wrong with Harvest, Benighted or similar. And anyway, I'd rather they moved on to completely verse/chorus than just do another BWP, or Still Life, or Morningrise. The last thing I want is for Opeth to go back to something they've already done, to a style they've already done, because I enjoy discovering the new directions they've taken.
 
I think repetition is just another technique in songwriting and has quite a bit of value if it is used properly. For instance, Bleak has a chorus that is repeated twice with the lyrics "Devious movements in your eyes..." marking the beginning. The first time it is played, it sets a beautiful tone for the song by having it flow from gutteral and evil through a wide spectrum of emotion to soaring and majestic. At the end of the song when the same structure is repeated, the familiarity with the lyrics and the tone breeds an even more powerful emotion. Beyond that, our minds almost... trust the song because we know what it will do next. Thus, when Mikael's dark voice kicks in again along with wicked double bass and a trademark Opeth dissonant guitar riff, we are subconciously startled, making that portion of the track seem even darker and more dangerous. I think repetition has not stopped Opeth songs from following their typical flowing pathway, and actually adds to their emotional aspect.
 



As performing musicians, where would we be without a solid grounding in the art of shameless plugging. Hahahaha. I was browsing threads and saw that this one had the age old verse chorus debate, and seen as how it was a debate that applied to one of our most recent projects I thought I would stick my 2 cents worth in on the matter. Plus as you have made mention to, the oppertunity to plug had also made itself known. And as we all know, the person who lets the oppertunity to plug pass swiftly through their fingers, is the person who didn't really want it that bad in the first place.
 
Enough plugging your own stuff, Trent (just kidding ). I'm still to feeble at using this forum.. I know not yet how to properly perform the quote function.


As performing musicians, where would we be without a solid grounding in the art of shameless plugging. Hahahaha. I was browsing threads and saw that this one had the age old verse chorus debate, and seen as how it was a debate that applied to one of our most recent projects I thought I would stick my 2 cents worth in on the matter. Plus as you have made mention to, the oppertunity to plug had also made itself known. And as we all know, the person who lets the oppertunity to plug pass swiftly through their fingers, is the person who didn't really want it that bad in the first place.
 
Originally posted by enigma_nocurnus
I'm still to feeble at using this forum.. I know not yet how to properly perform the quote function.
Click to expand...

Well, if you want to quote the whole of someone's post, click on the "Quote" button as the bottom of the post.

If you want to just quote a single line, you can either click the "Quote" button and then delete what you don't want to quote, or copy (Ctrl+C) the line, click "Reply", click the "Quote" button towards the top of the Reply page, and paste (Ctrl+V) it in.

Happy quoting.
 
An album of verse/chorus stuff would bore me, especially if its as basic and undeveloped as those bonus opeth songs. I dont know what to expect from the new album, there is so much more progressive stuff they could do in completely different structures rather than simply jumping back to the very basics. But i dont think those bonus songs are really showing the direction opeth are heading in, i think it was more of a sidetrack/experiment. Blackwater park was far more structured than previous efforts but i reckon theres a mix between structured songs and unstructured riffs/sections that would be ideal for opeth, who knows if they'll get there.
 
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