The News Thread

[CiG]

It used to be, albeit before we had fancier phrases like "mental health status."

Michel Foucault writes of madness in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries that stories or analogies of humans acting like animals were

Now bear in mind that in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, blacks were considered to be more primitive, closer to their natural, or animal, state than whites were. They exhibited a closer proximity to a "wilderness existence," according to eighteenth-century naturalists. Concomitant with that understanding is a classification of blacks as cognitively inferior, as having minds more like animals than humans--in other words, they were, by nature, insane. Coincidentally, this also became one justification for colonialism, since those of inferior minds needed to be helped. The rise of modern institutionalization is not a continuation of this practice, but it is historically parallel.

The recognition of transgender people within our society is still new, and until we've dedicated more efforts to perceiving them and treating them normally, we need to take any proposed study with a grain of salt; because while those studies will reveal quantitative information about transgender health, they will also silently reflect the conditions that give rise to that information.

It used to be, albeit before we had fancier phrases like "mental health status."

Yes but it is currently 2017. Being trans however isn't even similar to being black.

Comparing everything to the plight of black people in the west is ridiculous. Black people weren't identifying as less-than-human, that mistake was in the minds of others. Trans people think they're something they're not, scientifically speaking and they're the ones asking us to see them in a way that mirrors what whites wanted us to see blacks as.

 

[UltimateApathy]

"Sexual assault doesn't matter" - Technical Barbarity

"Discrimination against transgender people doesn't matter" - Nate Skalman

Your mothers must be so proud of the fine young men that y'all grew up into. It truly is an honor to us metal heads to be able to count such outstanding specimens of humanity among our number.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Being black isn't a mental health status.

Says who? How is it any more or less a "mental health status" than being black? Being black and being transgender both represent being a member of a minority group possessing disproportionate degrees of mental illness relative to the overall population.

 

[CiG]

Yes, the colour of one's skin is the same as being born male and believing you're female.

 

[Dak]

Says who? How is it any more or less a "mental health status" than being black? Being black and being transgender both represent being a member of a minority group possessing disproportionate degrees of mental illness relative to the overall population.

African Americans have a disproportionate amount of total mental illness compared to Whites? Unlikely. What you would probably see is variance in the prevalence of types, similar to variance between men and women. EG, women are more likely to suffer from depression and anxiety, men are more likely to suffer from schizo-related illness.

 

[Nate Skalman]

Good point. And why are equations to something else always a factor? This debate is apples to oranges

 

[Nate Skalman]

Only a liberal would correlate a transgender to being black. That's the most racist fucking thing I've heard in a while. yet you're attending anti-racist protests???...I guarantee you wouldn't talk about this in front of black people. You'd get beat up quickly

 

[Dak]

"Intersectional" Basically it's the political science underpinnings of trying to tie the "coalition of the fringes" together. Try to equivocate a bunch of totally disparate issues so they join for numbers.

 

[Nate Skalman]

Before anyone jumps to assumptions, we are a mixed family and my wife is black (3/4 black for liberals reference)

 

[Nate Skalman]

You'd get punched out if you said that in front of my wife's family. People don't think things through very well...it's funny how unaware you are thinking you're defending people's rights and inadvertently end up totally insulting black people in the process...

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Yes, the colour of one's skin is the same as being born male and believing you're female.

How about the gays? Born a male but they think their cum belongs in another man's asshole instead of a woman's ovaries, how fucking insane is that? Should they not be allowed to serve? They're obviously defective, right?

African Americans have a disproportionate amount of total mental illness compared to Whites? Unlikely. What you would probably see is variance in the prevalence of types, similar to variance between men and women. EG, women are more likely to suffer from depression and anxiety, men are more likely to suffer from schizo-related illness.

Blacks are significantly more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia, for one. They also commit violent crime at a much higher rate, which could potentially have roots in some form of mental illness.

Only a liberal would correlate a transgender to being black. That's the most racist fucking thing I've heard in a while. yet you're attending anti-racist protests???...I guarantee you wouldn't talk about this in front of black people. You'd get beat up quickly

I'm not a liberal and I'm anti- many "anti-racist" ("anti-fascist") protests. The point is that while it's fair to acknowledge a certain thing that a given population is worse at, it's not fair to assume all members of a given population are worse at the given thing.

 

[UltimateApathy]

I see the photo of Nate Skalman (fearless advocate of discrimination and intolerance) with his black wife, and raise him this:

 

[CiG]

How about the gays? Born a male but they think their cum belongs in another man's asshole instead of a woman's ovaries, how fucking insane is that? Should they not be allowed to serve? They're obviously defective, right?

I'm not even opposed to trans people serving on the basis that they're dealing with a neurological disorder, for me it is entirely an issue of combat readiness. Can they be combat ready if they're undergoing something as intense as HRT or some form of masculinisation/feminisation surgery? Are they willing to put all transition surgery and medical steps on hold in order to be combat ready? How costly will it be on the taxpayer if their surgeries and programs are to be paid for by the military?

Other than that, the standard for entry will always be the standard for entry and if they can meet that standard, fine.

It's not even similar to being gay, let alone being black. You're reaching brutally.

Blacks are significantly more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia, for one. They also commit violent crime at a much higher rate, which could potentially have roots in some form of mental illness.

That's just a cultural thing.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

If this was about surgery, an executive order could be written "No one currently undergoing or recuperating from surgery may enlist in the military until recovered" and most people would probably be like "Well duh".

Technically transgender people don't have to undergo any surgery or HRT either. I could identify as a girl right now and I'd be transgender.

What does cultural have to do with it, assuming your claim is even correct? Our culture is gendered as well.

 

[CiG]

So you're saying blacks are racially just more prone to being violent? That growing up in a shit area with shit parents, no role-models, often no father, has so little to do with it that you're excluding it from the equation?

If this was about surgery, an executive order could be written "No one currently undergoing or recuperating from surgery may enlist in the military until recovered" and most people would probably be like "Well duh".

Technically transgender people don't have to undergo any surgery or HRT either. I could identify as a girl right now and I'd be transgender.

Well yeah of course, just like how you can be white and say I'm black and now you're black. This is why being black and being trans are pretty much the same thing.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I'm unaware of any conclusive evidence that demonstrates it's an either-or situation.

Do you believe in discriminating against transracial people as well?

 

[CiG]

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Is that supposed to support your opinion? He says he supports the right of individuals to discriminate against other individuals, but not the right of government to discriminate against individuals. Something I totally agree with, btw.

 

[CiG]

I was just trolling, was in the middle of watching Venus in Furs.

More seriously, I'm not exactly of the belief that transracialism is a thing.

 

[Einherjar86]

Yes but it is currently 2017. Being trans however isn't even similar to being black.

Comparing everything to the plight of black people in the west is ridiculous. Black people weren't identifying as less-than-human, that mistake was in the minds of others. Trans people think they're something they're not, scientifically speaking and they're the ones asking us to see them in a way that mirrors what whites wanted us to see blacks as.

Only a liberal would correlate a transgender to being black. That's the most racist fucking thing I've heard in a while. yet you're attending anti-racist protests???...I guarantee you wouldn't talk about this in front of black people. You'd get beat up quickly

"Intersectional" Basically it's the political science underpinnings of trying to tie the "coalition of the fringes" together. Try to equivocate a bunch of totally disparate issues so they join for numbers.

To be fair, I was merely commenting on CIG's original comment about blackness not being a mental illness, and pointed out that it used to be.

It isn't racist to point out similarities between transgender issues and race issues. It would be ignorant to say that transgender individuals suffer the same depredation that blacks did in the eighteenth century, that's true; but it isn't at all racist or a stretch to point out that perceptions of racial psychology/cognition in the eighteenth century still permeate cultural rhetoric and understanding today. If there's overlap between transgender and race, it has nothing to do with being an accurate comparison between sexual/gender and race. It's simply a result of the messy and leaky psychological parameters that have been deployed in the past.