The Official off/non topic THREAD
- Thread starter Morticia NL.
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Chanakya
Orphaned Brother
Kinda inconsequential so it comes here. At one point I saw 12 active users on this forum a few hours back :O
Kenneth R.
Cináed
I'm really looking forward to the new album! I keep seeing pictures online and they're all hilarious.
Chanakya
Orphaned Brother
The banner serving as the backdrop for yesterday's gig is magnificent! It's the most detailed and beautiful one that I've seen so far [that's not too many though].
Just my opinion as one who turned his back on Facebook and only occasionally uses MySpace... The idea of networking is extremely useful and profile sites giving you like an online presence where you introduce yourself ... the concept is absolutely great.
However, the way people use it is what made me turn my back on it. Some people make it a race to have as many friends possible, quantity rather than quality. The number of games and silly options is countless, making the really useful usergroups hard to find because it's like looking for a needle in the haystick. The networking idea in itself would be great if people used it what it's for: networking with people who share the same interests. However, the way people use it, it's so hard to see the forest from the trees that the sites lose their functionality and become uninteresting IMO. MySpace is still slightly interesting because of all the beginning bands broadcasting their music there, but I still only sign in to my account rarely. Facebook I turned my back on really. If people would use these network sites in a more mature way it could be fun. Now it's just ... not appealing anymore to me. Which in a way is a shame because if it were used in the proper way it would be a great method to network and find interesting people. But in this manner it's being run now? No, thanks.
Also, i doubt it will be a long-term hype. I remember when I first came on the web about 10 years ago (wow, seems an eternity away). MSN Communities were the big thing back then. Now they are vanished or hardly used anymore. Then came the likes of Hi5, Bebo, ... who all lost the battle to MySpace. MySpace seemed to be the big thing, but a bit later Facebook got more and more users with a similar concept and MySpace begins to struggle to catch up with them. Meanwhile the next hype, Twitter, is already growing so rapidly that I wonder how long it will take before Facebook's hype is over and a new hype is lurking around the corner.
Not to mention that in some countries other networking sites are much more popular than Facebook (eg Studi-VZ in Germany, Orkut in Brazil, ********* in Russia). If you want to catch up with it all you'd need an account with all of those because it's an illusion to have all your "friends" and networking on just one site.
Last but not least, both MySpace (hidden republican agenda) and Facebook (run by ultra-capitalists where privacy is an illusion) have a political agenda behind the screens which doesn't correspond that much with my own political believes. Although the above reasons are by far the ones why I am less and less using this type of networking sites.
The networking idea in itself is good. The result is a potential wasted IMO.
Chanakya
Orphaned Brother
Thank you for sharing the insights HaTikva. I totally agree with you on almost every point you make. Still- I also meet cool people on places like Facebook and so I consider the "French benefits" to make it worth the energy I put into it. Look at my brother Ananth here- we are having fun on FB 
And there is always a place like this forum when you want some real conversation.
10 years on the net- yup we are dinosaurs
And there is always a place like this forum when you want some real conversation.
10 years on the net- yup we are dinosaurs
Postmodernist
Yachad el ha'or
Russland = "VK0ntakte" and "Odnoklassniki" social networks. VK0ntakte is a direct clone of FaceBook. Both services are much abused by KGB-like FSB state service.
Additionally, Putin owns 5% of FaceBook's stock share through a company named Digital Sky, and they aim to buy up more.
UPD: it is really weird "VK0ntakte" is moderated at Ultimate Metal.
Additionally, Putin owns 5% of FaceBook's stock share through a company named Digital Sky, and they aim to buy up more.
UPD: it is really weird "VK0ntakte" is moderated at Ultimate Metal.
Oy postmodernist, again I learned some new stuff.
People still dont understand to be careful with private info on networking sites.
People still dont understand to be careful with private info on networking sites.
Chanakya
Orphaned Brother
@ Anton, the rights infringement is truly scary, sometimes I wish I was purely ignorant of all this. So this makes the whole freedom of expression thing a farce? Do people end up being monitored physically because of their e-lives? I mean, apart from hackers, if they get busted, like the civil rights activists in China.
That said, I find Facebook quite a useful tool keeping in touch with people I hadn't seen in years and to meet new people. For instance a bunch of Yanks from California visited my school [ours are sister schools] and since all of us used Facebook, there was an avenue for all of us to keep in touch and communicate regularly, which wouldn't have been possible otherwise. And of course, I'm getting to meet an increasing number of like-minded Orphaned Land fans [who are all characteristically incredibly open minded without exception]. It's kinda funny that I say that considering I talk to 2/3 of the people conversing in this thread on Facebook. Also, it makes a nice story to tell! For instance, when someone prods me about who these people are. 'This knowledgable brainiac is a Kyrgyz dude studying in Scandinavia and the guy who's supplied me all those cool videos that I've shown you' and 'She's the biggest and most hardworking fan[atic] of anything that I know' and it's amazing how culturally/socially/linguistically/politically/environmentally sensitive and aware almost everyone here is.
That said, I find Facebook quite a useful tool keeping in touch with people I hadn't seen in years and to meet new people. For instance a bunch of Yanks from California visited my school [ours are sister schools] and since all of us used Facebook, there was an avenue for all of us to keep in touch and communicate regularly, which wouldn't have been possible otherwise. And of course, I'm getting to meet an increasing number of like-minded Orphaned Land fans [who are all characteristically incredibly open minded without exception]. It's kinda funny that I say that considering I talk to 2/3 of the people conversing in this thread on Facebook. Also, it makes a nice story to tell! For instance, when someone prods me about who these people are. 'This knowledgable brainiac is a Kyrgyz dude studying in Scandinavia and the guy who's supplied me all those cool videos that I've shown you' and 'She's the biggest and most hardworking fan[atic] of anything that I know' and it's amazing how culturally/socially/linguistically/politically/environmentally sensitive and aware almost everyone here is.
Yop Ananth. Use wisely and ignore the spam then FB and MS can be cool places to hang and meet people.
But don't u sometimes get the feeling you can never keep up with everything going on on all sites? I really have that problem. It feels like a job at times. Or is that just my age talking?
But don't u sometimes get the feeling you can never keep up with everything going on on all sites? I really have that problem. It feels like a job at times. Or is that just my age talking?
If there were just one social networking site to keep up with it'd be handy. But now imagine some of your friends are on Facebook, some on Orkut, some on MySpace, some on Friendster ... That kinda forces you to maintain an account on all of those as well I have email, that does the trick for me, I don't need those social network sites anymore. Tried it and didn't like it that much, sometimes old school communication methods are still the best. Email for me still is better than those network sites.
PS: must admit I once tried an oline dating site :embarrassed: but also that didn't work so I quickly enough more or less abandoned that place as well.
I have email, that does the trick for me, I don't need those social network sites anymore. Tried it and didn't like it that much, sometimes old school communication methods are still the best. Email for me still is better than those network sites.PS: must admit I once tried an oline dating site :embarrassed: but also that didn't work so I quickly enough more or less abandoned that place as well.
Postmodernist
Yachad el ha'or
HaTikva wrote in another thread:
As for the first part of your post: people often download because they are in the illusion artists all are rich and swimming in pools of money. This may be true for a very very tiny minority such as Bono, Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger, Madonna etc (and even then: theft remains theft, regardless how rich the person is) but the vast majority of artists heavily struggle financially to get around. Unfortunately media and papers only talk about the Bono's, Lady Gaga's, Madonna's of this world, which gives people a false impression that every artist is rich. Few realise this is a very tiny minority. A lot of bands hardly get their bills paid because from profits of record sales the management, record company, distribution etc all take a large share -- if the artist gets 20% of the actual sales' profit it's already quite much, most get less of that. Only touring can make some money but then this can be quite exhausting as well when touring with a tiny budget (eg a lot of shows with hardly any sleep or break because the costs would be too high otherwise) and booking agencies again take part of the profits. If people then also start downloading and copying everything, record companies have even less money to help beginning bands to launch their careers ; so while the famous big bands like U2, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith etc may not notice a lot of the downloading disease, small bands with talent often miss out on record deals because there's no money left to offer unknown bands a contract as well. I know a few bands who had to make debts and invest personal savings into recording their demo, after years and years of playing in the local circuit, being noticed by the local press and record companies, but hearing that there was no money to offer them a deal. People who think all artists are swimming in money are living in a dream world, this is true only for a very tiny minority of bands.
PS: the one thing that does give some reasonable profit is often merchandising, but then for non mainstream bands it's usually indie record stores selling that. Downloading will force those stores to close down. Knowing that Walmart, Free Record Shop and all the big chains usually focus on mainstream music only, this means less income for smaller bands as well because there's no indie shops left that are willing to sell their merchandising.
As for the first part of your post: people often download because they are in the illusion artists all are rich and swimming in pools of money. This may be true for a very very tiny minority such as Bono, Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger, Madonna etc (and even then: theft remains theft, regardless how rich the person is) but the vast majority of artists heavily struggle financially to get around. Unfortunately media and papers only talk about the Bono's, Lady Gaga's, Madonna's of this world, which gives people a false impression that every artist is rich. Few realise this is a very tiny minority. A lot of bands hardly get their bills paid because from profits of record sales the management, record company, distribution etc all take a large share -- if the artist gets 20% of the actual sales' profit it's already quite much, most get less of that. Only touring can make some money but then this can be quite exhausting as well when touring with a tiny budget (eg a lot of shows with hardly any sleep or break because the costs would be too high otherwise) and booking agencies again take part of the profits. If people then also start downloading and copying everything, record companies have even less money to help beginning bands to launch their careers ; so while the famous big bands like U2, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith etc may not notice a lot of the downloading disease, small bands with talent often miss out on record deals because there's no money left to offer unknown bands a contract as well. I know a few bands who had to make debts and invest personal savings into recording their demo, after years and years of playing in the local circuit, being noticed by the local press and record companies, but hearing that there was no money to offer them a deal. People who think all artists are swimming in money are living in a dream world, this is true only for a very tiny minority of bands.
PS: the one thing that does give some reasonable profit is often merchandising, but then for non mainstream bands it's usually indie record stores selling that. Downloading will force those stores to close down. Knowing that Walmart, Free Record Shop and all the big chains usually focus on mainstream music only, this means less income for smaller bands as well because there's no indie shops left that are willing to sell their merchandising.
Postmodernist
Yachad el ha'or
Ananth wrote in another thread:
That's well put from the industry's perspective, but from a fan's POV-
As much as I agree with you, downloading is inevitable. It's not that I don't know it's consequences [For eg. it's a shame that such an amazing artist like Mattias Noren had to shut shop] , but there is no way out. From what I've noticed in the scene here [and in most places I guess], it's invariably the middle class kids who are fans and are part of bands as well. I know how hard it is to cut an album and I've personally seen how financially straining this is, especially in an art form which has close to no patronage. I've also seen how painful it is for their CDs not to be sold. However there are unwritten norms which we follow without thinking or debating. If a band puts out an album in our country, people end up buying it without questioning it as we know the struggle they've gone through. So this is to an extent similar to the grassroots movements in various parts of the world.
But coming to the international arena, let's face it, we are to an extent emotionally detached. You wouldn't buy some album just for supporting someone when you didn't care about them. But that's not even that big an issue. The bigger issue is the obvious economic deficit. The very same record labels marginalize distribution, restricting it to a few countries without exploring the possibility of new markets. As a result of this, there is 0 possibility of me to get anything beyond Maiden/Priest/Megadeth/etc on my own. And even those albums are hyper-inflated to cover duties and to give a big cut to the distributor. And of course, ordering albums from Europe and America with heavy mailing charges is economically unviable and troublesome, hence downloads are inevitable. Now, this is a vicious cycle which affects everyone. Fans of the music will end up buying what they like. A lot of people first try out an album by downloading it and then proceed to buy it if they like it. One can't argue with that thanks to the ocean of bands out there today. Marginal listeners aren't into it enough to bother buying this music, which results in downloads.
And it's fairly common knowledge that one can't make a living purely out of this, with virtually most musicians having a stable day job or the others work in studios as producers and/or sessions musicians.
That's well put from the industry's perspective, but from a fan's POV-
As much as I agree with you, downloading is inevitable. It's not that I don't know it's consequences [For eg. it's a shame that such an amazing artist like Mattias Noren had to shut shop] , but there is no way out. From what I've noticed in the scene here [and in most places I guess], it's invariably the middle class kids who are fans and are part of bands as well. I know how hard it is to cut an album and I've personally seen how financially straining this is, especially in an art form which has close to no patronage. I've also seen how painful it is for their CDs not to be sold. However there are unwritten norms which we follow without thinking or debating. If a band puts out an album in our country, people end up buying it without questioning it as we know the struggle they've gone through. So this is to an extent similar to the grassroots movements in various parts of the world.
But coming to the international arena, let's face it, we are to an extent emotionally detached. You wouldn't buy some album just for supporting someone when you didn't care about them. But that's not even that big an issue. The bigger issue is the obvious economic deficit. The very same record labels marginalize distribution, restricting it to a few countries without exploring the possibility of new markets. As a result of this, there is 0 possibility of me to get anything beyond Maiden/Priest/Megadeth/etc on my own. And even those albums are hyper-inflated to cover duties and to give a big cut to the distributor. And of course, ordering albums from Europe and America with heavy mailing charges is economically unviable and troublesome, hence downloads are inevitable. Now, this is a vicious cycle which affects everyone. Fans of the music will end up buying what they like. A lot of people first try out an album by downloading it and then proceed to buy it if they like it. One can't argue with that thanks to the ocean of bands out there today. Marginal listeners aren't into it enough to bother buying this music, which results in downloads.
And it's fairly common knowledge that one can't make a living purely out of this, with virtually most musicians having a stable day job or the others work in studios as producers and/or sessions musicians.
Postmodernist
Yachad el ha'or
Morticia_NL wrote in another thread:
Ananth, I see your point. Most of us are talking from a North american/ European perspective I guess. The place where you can buy any cd you want.
But with having a shop, one of the reasons is that we want to offer special stuff to fans. It's not easy to keep up with prices when the post eats a lot of the profit. You have to adapt your prices knowing that some pple have to pay a lot for posting- then you have to keep lower prices. But on what they pay the most, you dont make money, only the post does. It's scary how much they charge to ship a package and you still have to pray every day your customer gets it.
I actually don't really download music. Usually I listen to stuff on MySpace and places like that. And when a friend passes me a copy of an album and I like it, I buy it. Sometimes it takes me a year, but I buy it. But if I have to make a choice between buying another Metallica album or one of a small band, I opt for the latter.
HaTikva, many of my friends are in bands, and quite succeful ones, I see them struggle for a living busting their asses to record and on tours, so I know the difference between what the media portrays and the real life of a "rockstar". You are right to say that for many people the way of looking at bands is far from what the true picture is.
Ananth, I see your point. Most of us are talking from a North american/ European perspective I guess. The place where you can buy any cd you want.
But with having a shop, one of the reasons is that we want to offer special stuff to fans. It's not easy to keep up with prices when the post eats a lot of the profit. You have to adapt your prices knowing that some pple have to pay a lot for posting- then you have to keep lower prices. But on what they pay the most, you dont make money, only the post does. It's scary how much they charge to ship a package and you still have to pray every day your customer gets it.
I actually don't really download music. Usually I listen to stuff on MySpace and places like that. And when a friend passes me a copy of an album and I like it, I buy it. Sometimes it takes me a year, but I buy it. But if I have to make a choice between buying another Metallica album or one of a small band, I opt for the latter.
HaTikva, many of my friends are in bands, and quite succeful ones, I see them struggle for a living busting their asses to record and on tours, so I know the difference between what the media portrays and the real life of a "rockstar". You are right to say that for many people the way of looking at bands is far from what the true picture is.
Chanakya
Orphaned Brother
Okay I'm gonna go OT in the OT thread.
Last night after a long day I go to sleep and then I have a crazy dream. For some reason everyone on this forum and indeed the band itself were at my house the day before a special Mabool 10th anniversary concert. From what I remember, I had a conversation with Postmodernist about books and he'd ended up recommending many books after reading my entire library in 30 mins. And I found Kobi half-drunk discussing Carnatic Classical music with my dad and my mom berating Uri for having a beard. My house also had a huge huge lawn on which there was a football match :| . I remember all of were bitching about Hill not being around and all of the sudden he rushes into the scene on a horse with a cowboy hat and a thick Texan accent, shooting bullets into the sky going heeeehaaaw! [maybe because i didn't know how he looked like] And for some reason Matti was missing. I'm pretty sure the whole thing was a whole lot worse but I can't remember.
Gosh my dreams are eccentric
Last night after a long day I go to sleep and then I have a crazy dream. For some reason everyone on this forum and indeed the band itself were at my house the day before a special Mabool 10th anniversary concert. From what I remember, I had a conversation with Postmodernist about books and he'd ended up recommending many books after reading my entire library in 30 mins. And I found Kobi half-drunk discussing Carnatic Classical music with my dad and my mom berating Uri for having a beard. My house also had a huge huge lawn on which there was a football match :| . I remember all of were bitching about Hill not being around and all of the sudden he rushes into the scene on a horse with a cowboy hat and a thick Texan accent, shooting bullets into the sky going heeeehaaaw! [maybe because i didn't know how he looked like] And for some reason Matti was missing. I'm pretty sure the whole thing was a whole lot worse but I can't remember.
Gosh my dreams are eccentric
It sounds like we all had a great day.
One of my biggest wishes is that all the fans of Orphaned Land I know could one day all be present at the same show. I can't even imagine the topics of conversation and the mess of languages (Babylon really) but I guess your description comes close to it.
I love your stories about Anton reading all of your library in 30 minutes and Hill on a horse.
I can tell you why Matti was missing: he is getting married in October and he was busy trying on new outfits for the wedding and couldn't make a choice over how to wear his hair
One of my biggest wishes is that all the fans of Orphaned Land I know could one day all be present at the same show. I can't even imagine the topics of conversation and the mess of languages (Babylon really) but I guess your description comes close to it.
I love your stories about Anton reading all of your library in 30 minutes and Hill on a horse.
I can tell you why Matti was missing: he is getting married in October and he was busy trying on new outfits for the wedding and couldn't make a choice over how to wear his hair
Chanakya
Orphaned Brother
All the OL fans that you know would include all the OL fans that exist So that's a lot of people! But yeah the variety and variability of languages/cultures and various accents of english will be something awesome and very out of the ordinary. It'll be the most diverse congregation that I would have ever heard of.
:O Matti doesn't really look like the settling down kinda guy! Or maybe it's because of this post -
That's one of the funniest things I've seen/read in this place
So that's a lot of people! But yeah the variety and variability of languages/cultures and various accents of english will be something awesome and very out of the ordinary. It'll be the most diverse congregation that I would have ever heard of. :O Matti doesn't really look like the settling down kinda guy! Or maybe it's because of this post -
EDIT:
That's one of the funniest things I've seen/read in this place
We have been feeding you with false information then. Matti is a steady guy really.
And concerning those fans. I'm talking people I met on the road with the band and who I 'talked'to online. Easily a couple of hundred, so that would do the trick.
And concerning those fans. I'm talking people I met on the road with the band and who I 'talked'to online. Easily a couple of hundred, so that would do the trick.
Here is some news about overpriced tickets for shows. Look at what Israeli fans have to pay for a ticket to the concert-its starts at a whopping 160 dollars for the cheapest seats! So they started a boycot and they are right.
http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=135972
for the cheapest seats! So they started a boycot and they are right. http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=135972
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