Line666
Fendurr
- Sep 2, 2006
- 3,342
- 1
- 36
the pro tools back lash
- Thread starter Andy Sneap
- Start date
cobhc
Amiga Enthusiast
Quoted for truth! I actually preferred their "growled verse/clean chorus" generic metalcore stylings, and from ME that's saying something!(of course, "preferred" doesn't necessarily mean "enjoyed"
The new album is more like that. I actually like Shogun, the Slate samples sound awesome on it. I think Colin did a great job mixing it. And this elitest bullshit they seem to be spewing is bad, but it won't put me off listening to a great sounding album.
Glenn Fricker
Very Metal &Very Bad News
Funny how that gets the point across!
I had one that couldn't master a riff once too.... I took a different approach:
I grabbed the bass out of his hands, hit record, played the section, then handed the bass back to him.
"Ok, then. Let's move on!" was my comment. Boy, was he ever pissed! The rest of the band thought it was hysterical.
Öwen;7904905 said:
in all honesty, i don't see them throwing any of the bullshit out there that trivium are. i guess they're sort of in the same boat in the sense that they wanted a more organic/raw sounding album, but i don't much blame them after the amount of polish and shine that machine put on their last 2 records
not to mention the fact that these dudes are capable of sitting down, hitting record, and nailing their shit with no problems
i actually mixed Lamb of God's set on the Gigantour dvd and was pretty impressed at their playing live - a good solid vibe to it. They also had their tones well sorted for a live recording.
Sloan
Sounds like shit!
There have always been those minimalist bands/engineers around, but the metal genre is the one that's always been pushing all this replacement and getting everything dead on tight more than other genre's, and it's personally why i have never gotten much into it - i always hated metal production because it was too "perfect". It's nothing new, but I guess in the metal scene it may be somewhat of a departure from the "norm" to make a "raw" album.
I definitely don't agree with the Trivium dudes slamming their past efforts, I mean come on, if it was shit, why didn't they do anything about it?
I definitely don't agree with the Trivium dudes slamming their past efforts, I mean come on, if it was shit, why didn't they do anything about it?
aramism
Member
man i gotta jump in here. first of all i've seen trivium (as an opener) several times and they suck. lamb of god on the other hand are one of the bands that should be spared from our backlash back at bands. i think mark was speaking more of the fact that sacrament was so processed and they wanted something more along of the lines of new american gospel where it is raw sounding. that being said, how fucking tight is new american gospel and the production is shit? bands like that are an exception, true bands.
however andys OP was awesome. i am going to bronze it and nail it on the wall of my studio. in my young career i have crossed enough asshole cunt musicians who annoy the hell out of me and have no idea what they are talking about. it's both reassuring and frightening at the same time that someone at the level of andy deals with the same incompetence and unpreparedness that i deal with now. it is a bleak outlook into the future lol. but yeah i thought it's just that i am not dealing with more established bands but pretty much everyone i deal with most of the time they have no fucking clue what they are going to do until it's tracking time and this makes initial time estimates so much longer. the worst is when everything is mixed and done then they start second guessing parts and arrangements and expect things to be "looped" or "chopped" and then wonder when the final product sounds "looped" or "chopped" i've had bands tell me after they requested to cut out a verse and put something else in or to artificially create drum parts that it sounds "unnatural" and i have been stunned and couldn't even bring myself to utter the words "no shit" so i just shrug and move on.
however andys OP was awesome. i am going to bronze it and nail it on the wall of my studio. in my young career i have crossed enough asshole cunt musicians who annoy the hell out of me and have no idea what they are talking about. it's both reassuring and frightening at the same time that someone at the level of andy deals with the same incompetence and unpreparedness that i deal with now. it is a bleak outlook into the future lol. but yeah i thought it's just that i am not dealing with more established bands but pretty much everyone i deal with most of the time they have no fucking clue what they are going to do until it's tracking time and this makes initial time estimates so much longer. the worst is when everything is mixed and done then they start second guessing parts and arrangements and expect things to be "looped" or "chopped" and then wonder when the final product sounds "looped" or "chopped" i've had bands tell me after they requested to cut out a verse and put something else in or to artificially create drum parts that it sounds "unnatural" and i have been stunned and couldn't even bring myself to utter the words "no shit" so i just shrug and move on.
yea, that's total bullshit. there's no reason in the world to crap on someone who worked their ass off to help get you where they are...i mean hell, speaking of LoG, ATPB is probably one of the crappiest sounding albums devin townsend has ever done, and you don't see the band trashing him for it...they'll just tell you that they made the best album they could with what they had, and moved on from there.
aramism
Member
not to mention NAG launched LOG into stardom and got them signed to a major ass label. there are a lot of albums that even a deaf mixer can mix and they will sound good because the band is awesome, this applies to every genre. the other bands need to rely on the crutch of technology and production to be halfway decent. trivium def falls into that category it seems. this is another part of the vicious cycle which is the decline of the record industry.
IME bands form a defensive mechanism against "replacement" and "reamping" and other studio tricks and try to blame them for their inadequacy as players.
they are so quick to say: "you can fix that in the mix" or my favorite: "you wont notice it when you get guitars and vocals in there!" lol every band i have recorded has said that!!!
they are so quick to say: "you can fix that in the mix" or my favorite: "you wont notice it when you get guitars and vocals in there!" lol every band i have recorded has said that!!!
aramism
Member
what the fucks the big deal about reamping anyway? how is it compromising performance??? i got into a big argument about this with one band once.
NNotN-ENN
Reformed Lurker
Re. Trivium again:
Check out this mp3 of the web single that came out before the album (from memory), and listen to the kicks in particular. I remember thinking when I heard it (and I only checked it out to suss out this whole "raw" thing) that it would be a total embarrassment to at least their drummer if it was released like this. Obviously they felt the same way because the album version came out with totally sampled kicks!!
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/434500/01 Kirsute Gomen.mp3
Like I said, I'm pretty sure this was a "web single" so I hope it's not disallowed to post here, but if it is, I'll remove it for sure.
Check out this mp3 of the web single that came out before the album (from memory), and listen to the kicks in particular. I remember thinking when I heard it (and I only checked it out to suss out this whole "raw" thing) that it would be a total embarrassment to at least their drummer if it was released like this. Obviously they felt the same way because the album version came out with totally sampled kicks!!
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/434500/01 Kirsute Gomen.mp3
Like I said, I'm pretty sure this was a "web single" so I hope it's not disallowed to post here, but if it is, I'll remove it for sure.
ahjteam
Anssi Tenhunen
is it just me or did I just missed your point here? I think there isn't anything to be embaressed about the sound on that clip considering what they were after.
edit: ah, listened to the version on myspace
but in addition to the replacements, the "awesomely loud" button was also applied Wow. Never thought the "big" names in music would mess around like "high school" bands, wich are 90% of my jobs.
What I hate though is that they want to come in and want to do 8 songs in 1 day and they want it to sound pro, but they can't play to a click, don't have new strings, they got old drum skins and guitars are not set up for their Drop Z tuning.
I think people like Andy are miracle workers if they have to put up with the same crap most of us do.
What I hate though is that they want to come in and want to do 8 songs in 1 day and they want it to sound pro, but they can't play to a click, don't have new strings, they got old drum skins and guitars are not set up for their Drop Z tuning.
I think people like Andy are miracle workers if they have to put up with the same crap most of us do.
Seizure.
Member
Its indeed a backlash of protools/digital recording that bands/musicians choose to go for editting first, before rehearsing it to the point that they don't have to edit.
And thats partly our fault now isn't it? haha
I think its also because there are alot of "bedroom" studio's going on, without the sufficient room and material to record live, that makes more bands record part after part.
The same insufficient room and material thing is also what made sample replacing and reamping as popular as it is i think haha
I am a fan of both ways! Some bands cut it live and come out sounding awesome, more awesome then if they would have done it part by part.. (the song in the player on my myspace for example is done totally live..)
And some bands can also do that but would sound better recorded part by part because of the style, i do this with my own band for one...
Its also down the music.. i would much rather record a stoner band live then some technical metalband like Origin.
A lot of bands that Andy recorded or mixed, play music that doesn't ask for live recordings/room mics and natural drums IMO, but a tight modern metal sound.
It does tend to sound alike to my ear though.. it all sounds awesome, but it all has the same formula soundwise.. which i think drives people more towards the more natural/different sounding mixes people like Jens Bogren do.
And thats partly our fault now isn't it? haha
I think its also because there are alot of "bedroom" studio's going on, without the sufficient room and material to record live, that makes more bands record part after part.
The same insufficient room and material thing is also what made sample replacing and reamping as popular as it is i think haha
I am a fan of both ways! Some bands cut it live and come out sounding awesome, more awesome then if they would have done it part by part.. (the song in the player on my myspace for example is done totally live..)
And some bands can also do that but would sound better recorded part by part because of the style, i do this with my own band for one...
Its also down the music.. i would much rather record a stoner band live then some technical metalband like Origin.
A lot of bands that Andy recorded or mixed, play music that doesn't ask for live recordings/room mics and natural drums IMO, but a tight modern metal sound.
It does tend to sound alike to my ear though.. it all sounds awesome, but it all has the same formula soundwise.. which i think drives people more towards the more natural/different sounding mixes people like Jens Bogren do.
iekobrid
Authorized XSr Dealer
Maybe he just couldn't get a decent balance in his cans...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eRe7yTMoXE&#t=2m05s
ahjteam
Anssi Tenhunen
I actually listened to the Kirisute Gomen version that ...the guy with many N's on his name.... posted and compared it to the CD version and I really have to say that the video posted earlier is just really full of shit. and I'm not talking about little white lies, but a full one hour assrape.
What a piece of bull. how does reamping affect the actual performance? I'll tell you a secret: IN NO WAY! But well, they DID brickwall it to the hell and back for "big sound"... But talking about natural, where is the dynamics?
BUT THEY STILL DID SAMPLE REPLACE THE DRUMS ON THE FINAL ALBUM!
C'MON! You actually REMOVED A FULL DRUMPART in the middle of the song (3:20-3:27 AND the last 20 seconds from end of the song)! Fuck this shit, I'll get me coat.
What a piece of bull. how does reamping affect the actual performance? I'll tell you a secret: IN NO WAY! But well, they DID brickwall it to the hell and back for "big sound"... But talking about natural, where is the dynamics?
BUT THEY STILL DID SAMPLE REPLACE THE DRUMS ON THE FINAL ALBUM!
C'MON! You actually REMOVED A FULL DRUMPART in the middle of the song (3:20-3:27 AND the last 20 seconds from end of the song)! Fuck this shit, I'll get me coat.
NNotN-ENN
Reformed Lurker
Nah dude, sorry I should have been more clear. It was the fact that the album version was pretty much the same but with drum samples that I was getting at (even though you seem to have noticed that now!!). I've been having a shit time stringing words together lately.
But yeah, it definitely does prove that they straight up lied.
Regards, "the guy with many Ns"
p.s. I'm new to posting here but not to lurking... haha
yeah... right.... well, i've met Jens at his studio and spent some days there.. he's a great guy and very good engineer and mixer... but yeah... he uses samples too and does copy/paste editing too. just like the rest of us mortals. there's no special "organic magic" that he does. he's just a good mixer, using the same techniques that Andy or me or any other guy does when presented with the issues at hand.
