the pro tools back lash

[Seizure.]

Oh yeah.. i mean we all use samples.. i was more revering to his mixes as a whole sounding more natural and different..

Main thing that makes the difference to me is drums..
Compare Ghost Reveries to Shadows Are Security and you should get my point (exagerated comparison haha.. but still..)

Snare is a good example, you can hear the same sort of compression going on, on both sneaps and bogrens snares, but on bogrens snare the compression is less obvious to my ears, and i tend to hear more roomsound.

Again.. i'm not saying on or the other is better, just different.

 

[cobhc]

Re. Trivium again:
Check out this mp3 of the web single that came out before the album (from memory), and listen to the kicks in particular. I remember thinking when I heard it (and I only checked it out to suss out this whole "raw" thing) that it would be a total embarrassment to at least their drummer if it was released like this. Obviously they felt the same way because the album version came out with totally sampled kicks!!

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/434500/01 Kirsute Gomen.mp3

Like I said, I'm pretty sure this was a "web single" so I hope it's not disallowed to post here, but if it is, I'll remove it for sure.

Haha, that's awesome!

 

[James Murphy]

Oh yeah.. i mean we all use samples.. i was more revering to his mixes as a whole sounding more natural and different..

Main thing that makes the difference to me is drums..
Compare Ghost Reveries to Shadows Are Security and you should get my point (exagerated comparison haha.. but still..)

Snare is a good example, you can hear the same sort of compression going on, on both sneaps and bogrens snares, but on bogrens snare the compression is less obvious to my ears, and i tend to hear more roomsound.

Again.. i'm not saying on or the other is better, just different.

yeah, pretty pointless comparison.... apples and carrots.

my favorite thing about the GR snare is how well played it is... Martin has great feel, and i do miss him in the band, despite really liking Axe as well. other than that, it lacks a bit of weight for me.... but the amount of the room mics you hear on GR is more appropriate for that material than it would have been on SAS.... very different vibes, musically.

 

[Felix Neumann]

I also hate this..I become more and more an arrangeur and songwriter, because the artist arrive with half finished songs and don´t have any idea to finish it good. But I only want to produce and mix this shit, good as possible. On this is my focus. Some artists expect too much, I think. I hang on a large sign...

BE WELL PREPARED !


..or something like that.

 

[LSD-Studio]

I also hate this..I become more and more an arrangeur and songwriter, because the artist arrive with half finished songs and don´t have any idea to finish it good. But I only want to produce and mix this shit, good as possible. On this is my focus. Some artists expect too much, I think. I hang on a large sign...

BE WELL PREPARED !


..or something like that.

totally..
happens all the time that I gotta write lyrics for the bands cause they come with 8 minute-songs with just 20 secs of words.

 

[Seizure.]

yeah, pretty pointless comparison.... apples and carrots.

my favorite thing about the GR snare is how well played it is... Martin has great feel, and i do miss him in the band, despite really liking Axe as well. other than that, it lacks a bit of weight for me.... but the amount of the room mics you hear on GR is more appropriate for that material than it would have been on SAS.... very different vibes, musically.

Its indeed appropriate! And its one of few new modern metal records i actually hear it on.

Thats the difference with most other productions.. its not the sample replacement but the natural/roomy sound what catches the attention first.
And even the productions he did which didn't need alot of room on the drums still don't sound cut/paste and samplereplaced to me.

 

[Notuern]

This is exactly what i feel overall about modern music.
I have my self tried to encourage the rest of my bandmembers to practice to metronome at least a couple of times a week, and that we really should work on writing the songs down collectively, so that everyone gets their input to the music.

 

["Evil" Aidy]

I must say I do find it a little annoying how lots of people seem to be jumping on the band wagon now of saying things like "let's do this the old skool way" or "how bands used to do it" and "all natural sounding". I doubt they even know why they are saying these things!

Producers like Mr Sneap consistently do an awesome job with great sounding albums and it isn't fair when Trivium make the kind of comments that they do in that video.

Pro Tools, re-amping, cutting & pasting, quantizing, amp sims, DFH are all there for a reason...

If you need to use them then why the hell not! Why compromise your musical vision being a dumbass purist that refuses to sample replace or re-amp?

Maybe some of us simply don't have the time fucking around for several weeks with different mic placement or hundreds of different kick and snare drums!

Some people won't even play to a click, that's madness!

 

[Notuern]

[quote="Evil" Aidy;7905787]If you need to use them then why the hell not! Why compromise your musical vision being a dumbass purist that refuses to sample replace or re-amp?[/quote]

The problem is that if you do it right, you dont need them!

 

[musickey]

Just gotta say i watched the Roadrunner United Concert DVD last night and it is a killer concert, but i couldnt help but think to myself that half mongol looking dude is faggin out everything he's on.

 

[nwright]

I'd be interested to know what spurred this thread (as in, name some names, haha).

I've found that the dudes who are so against replacement and other studio tricks are the ones that:

a.)Don't know what they are talking about at all in terms of studio work

b.)don't know how to do it right

c.) need it the most.

 

[Felix Neumann]

What I hate though is that they want to come in and want to do 8 songs in 1 day and they want it to sound pro, but they can't play to a click, don't have new strings, they got old drum skins and guitars are not set up for their Drop Z tuning.

Hahaha fuckin YES..that´s so true, dude Unfortunately.

 

[-J-]

interesting rant. I would think it'd also be tough to sit through bands "writing in the studio" on your watch.

 

[Felix Neumann]

totally..
happens all the time that I gotta write lyrics for the bands cause they come with 8 minute-songs with just 20 secs of words.

hahaha..oh my god The best clients are those, who bring complete "smoke" equipment into the studio. No, No, No...BE CLEAR IN YOUR HEAD, KIDS!! Those Kids who think, they are addicted In a few years I´ll only make classic, with professional musicians playin Bach or Ludwig van.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Maybe he just couldn't get a decent balance in his cans...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eRe7yTMoXE&#t=2m05s

Lol! I love that bit!



...actually, the dude was in the control room at the time!

 

[Glenn Fricker]

what the fucks the big deal about reamping anyway? how is it compromising performance??? i got into a big argument about this with one band once.

Yeah, that kinda blows my mind as well.... It's not about compromising performance, it's about capturing it.

A good way to explain it to a guitarist who's being difficult: Set up an amp & have him play a short riff or two with him out in the room. Then, play it back through the amp via your DAW/reamp device. "See? Nothing changes! I still have to edit your crappy playing the old fashioned way!"

 

[James Murphy]

And even the productions he did which didn't need alot of room on the drums still don't sound cut/paste and samplereplaced to me.

and yet most, if not all, of them surely are. this is down to the bands, not some special magic in Örebro, i'm quite sure.

also nevermind that you are comparing albums in some cases that Andy or other producers had to "save" from shit or "less than" recordings by other producers, done in garages and bedrooms or studios with not great acoustics and recorded by less experienced "engineers", to albums done by Jens in a nice studio with good live room, but you are also clearly in love with him. lol, ! it's ok, i dig his work too.... but he's not a magician.... he just happens to record most of the stuff he mixes himself in a nice studio with good live room. the example above is exactly the case with SAS vs GR. Andy only mixed SAS, Jens had the luxury of recording GR in his own space and to control the quality from the first moment.

so let's just stop with the impossible comparisons... it's pointless. A good Chef can turn a list of "blah" ingredients into a decent meal with the right spices and experience.... but it's never as good as when he shops for the ingredients himself... ha, i love food analogies. maybe it's why i'm getting fat?... lol

 

[Andy Sneap]

Oh yeah.. i mean we all use samples.. i was more revering to his mixes as a whole sounding more natural and different..

Main thing that makes the difference to me is drums..
Compare Ghost Reveries to Shadows Are Security and you should get my point (exagerated comparison haha.. but still..)

Snare is a good example, you can hear the same sort of compression going on, on both sneaps and bogrens snares, but on bogrens snare the compression is less obvious to my ears, and i tend to hear more roomsound.

Again.. i'm not saying on or the other is better, just different.

yeah 2 totally different bands. Compare Dead Heart to Shadows, I think you'll find those totally different, and one thing you forget is I didnt track As I Lay Dying. So many times I'm given stuff to mix/fix where you have to fully replace the drums. Devildriver (tho the toms were good here) and Trivium being 2 of them and with AS I Lay Dying, if I remember correct, there wasn't even an original drum on there, it was already totally replaced when I got the drive.

 

[Felix Neumann]

ha ha... i love food analogies. maybe it's why i've gotten fat?... lol

haha me too...thus both The best is the "salination soup"..like some over-reverbed drumsounds in the 80´s.

 

[Chryst Krispies]

"See? Nothing changes! I still have to edit your crappy playing the old fashioned way!"

HAhahahaha That'll shut them up.