the pro tools back lash

[Notuern]

Oh, and if you guys think that im "crackin' down" at you, you have misunderstood me.
Its your job to get the thing done in time and with as good sound as possible, but that being said, do you guys disagree that it would have been better with just letting the project take some time, and do it "right" the first time?
Sure, you cant chose to work that way, but wouldn't you prefer it?

 

[nwright]

Oh, and if you guys think that im "crackin' down" at you, you have misunderstood me.
Its your job to get the thing done in time and with as good sound as possible, but that being said, do you guys disagree that it would have been better with just letting the project take some time, and do it "right" the first time?
Sure, you cant chose to work that way, but wouldn't you prefer it?

Sure, but to me that's like saying "water is wet"...It's the obvious viewpoint.

 

[nwright]

it's a digital device...dry guitarone comes in, processor calculates, emulated tone comes out.
that processing takes time (be it 2ms only)=latency




BUT

usually the latency in the rehearsalspace is bigger...depending on how far you stand from the speakercab (2ms=0.7m)






that one had samples on the drums...
even "back in black" had...

ha, just search the web for bob clearmountain

Haha, see, I didn't know all that.

*noob*

 

[Felix Neumann]

I think, the RESULT is important..not HOW.

I don´t sell my soul to the devil, when I replace drumsamples, which I recorded in my own fuckin´studio. The same with Orchestra sounds. I don´t know, if Zimmer´s "Gladiator" soundtrack was absolutely none vst ? I think, I heard other things. Doesn´t matter, because this great piece of music reached my heart.
I do not ask, how made it. I´m thankful, that it exists in this quality! Just like, for example, Arch Enemy´s "Doomsday Machine". As I heard the intro, I was completely blown away.

Try to make quality and take what ever you can to realize it!!

 

[nwright]

I think, the RESULT is important..not HOW. I don´t sell my soul to the devil, when I replace drumsamples, which I recorded in my own fuckin´studio. The same with Orchestra sounds..I don´t know, if Zimmer´s "Gladiator" soundtrack was absolutely none vst ?? I think, I heard other things. Doesn´t matter, becouse this great piece of music reached my heart. I do not ask, how made it..I´m thankful, that it exists in this quality. Just like, for example, Arch Enemy´s "Doomsday Machine"..as I heard the intro, I was completely blown away..what a sound!?

Try to make quality and take what ever you can to realize it!!

+10000000000000

 

[Seizure.]

Quote:
well get to crackin' lads... let's hear 'em.

No metal.. but this dude needed no more then the useall compression and eq [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFBsGoB8w0U&feature=channel_page[/ame]

Cut through layers of synths, guitars, bass and choirs/vocals like without any effort..
I'll be working with them on their fulllength since they also got the thumbs up on those recordings from there upcoming label

I get the point that if your gonna have to work fast, samples will get you to the result a label wants faster, i never qouted it as being bad aswell else i wouldn't use it aswell!

Better yet.. mix balance wise, SAS gets used regularly as reverence, great sounding record!
Hearing it was allready 100% replaced explains alot btw.

My own opinion is that it just gets overused, to the point were you are hearing more of a machine working then a musician.

Sometimes i'd rather hear the drummer hit a poorly recorded snare then a hit generated by drumagog.

And while i'm not working on the type of projects some of you guys might be on i'm working on 2 bands/fulllengths this month aswell with a pretty damn tight deadline which ask me to please NOT go the samplereplace/overeditted way of working.

I honestly think samplereplacing is not a must, and not all music (a large chunk of all music i think...) asks for it.

Imagine a band like high on fire with samplereplaced kick/snare..
But its also a matter of taste.. i don't see alot of steve albini love here aswell, so i don't get i'll get much love on this post aswell haha


So: i don't mean to offend anyone here but i do gotta say that i think that it gets overused, on the bigger projects and in the low budget productions.

 

[James Murphy]

your use of my quote, and most of your post is useless to this discussion.. since we are all talking about modern metal here... i can list you several albums, not metal, that i've done with Zero editing and zero samples... you are not unique in that regard... we are discussing entirely different music with entirely different logistic and business considerations.

i love steve albini's work.. he's not doing much current metal production... Dysrythmia's album Albini did comes to mind... love it. but it's not how most modern metal bands sound... it's a different animal, with different issues.

 

[LSD-Studio]

often people can't even tell anymore...for them it's almost "if it sounds good it's triggered"...probably just getting that opinion from poorly recorded sounds.

just the other day I met someone on a live gig who "accused" me of using samples on this band:

www.diefischerband.de (not metal though)
when I told him that I didn't use any drumsamples he said he won't believe me cause it sounded so clean...
BUT I had a good drummer with a good drumkit and a good room,....there are some people over here (not talking about this forum but my hometown) that automatically assume something is triggered (using this term for "samplereplacement" cause that's how they're calling it...always shows me that they have no idea what triggering really is) cause they can't imagine that real drums can sound "clean" as well....
same goes for the other way round, samplereplaced drums can sound mushy dirty and more dynamic that the real performance (if we want them to)...it's just tools we use to achieve a good result in the end.

you may say that sampleaugmenting and reamping changes the original tone....
so what, so does any compressor or ordinary EQ...artificial reverbs etc.
that's exactly what we're using this tools for...altering the endresult for the better.

 

[Seizure.]

@James, i didn't mention i was unique to have recorded a good drummer that didn't need samplereplacement

Anyway, even then i think its wrong to say modern metal NEEDS sample replacement.

 

[James Murphy]

as i said before.. let's hear it..... if you have an example, i won't be thinking "wow, what great engineering"(unless it really is).. i'll will be thinking, "wow... what a killer drummer".. that is what you hearing on the big metal productions today.. not bad choices to use samples(well, those are plentiful as well)... you are hearing drummers who need it (also quite plentiful, sadly).

done.

 

[Seizure.]

Close to a world below by Immolation (song and album) seems like a good one.

It fluctuates in volume (both kick/snare and toms), but thats what i like about it.

 

[James Murphy]

Close to a world below by Immolation (song and album) seems like a good one.

It fluctuates in volume (both kick/snare and toms), but thats what i like about it.

good drumming.. not great mixing.

 

[James Murphy]

Anyway, even then i think its wrong to say modern metal NEEDS sample replacement.

sure, unless it does. and often it does.

it's all about the aesthetic you're going for, and what's in fashion to a certain degree.... but rather than complain, why not just make metal recordings that set a new standard and a new fashion?... i await your excellence.

 

[Seizure.]

What would you have done to that album then? drum mixing wise that is.

 

[JeffTD]

Well, I track through a 5150 & still wind up reamping it because I get obsessive about tone.... I might change mic position or the amp's eq slightly, or add a second mic, or try a different preamp. Any gripes about that method?

Nah, not at all - and I don't really have gripes about reamping with different amps or tracking with a POD or what have you - it all comes out pretty similar, you know? I just like to 'play the amp' and in an ideal situation would always track with the amp that's being used on the final product.

That said, the reason we're all here is because ideal situations rarely, if ever, exist in this line of work!

 

[Seizure.]

it's all about the aesthetic you're going for, and what's in fashion to a certain degree.... but rather than complain, why not just make metal recordings that set a new standard and a new fashion?... i await your excellence.

I'm not saying i'm excellent in what i'm aiming for yet, but i'm bored enough by most modern metal productions (and more so the drums..) that i'd damn sure give it a try.

 

[abyssofdreams]

The best example I can give recently was the new Unearth album which saw me breaking national speed limits to get to DHL at east midlands airport with 20 minutes to spare. Although I'm generally happy with the end results, this kind of unnecessary pressure doesnt make for a constructive and inventive studio environment.

I hope they've paid you accordingly

 

[James Murphy]

What would you have done to that album then? drum mixing wise that is.

other than filtering out tons of mud, giving the kick a more defined attack and punch, turning up the bottom snare track, replacing the plastic tubs used for toms with actual toms, not having all the bad edits so obvious in the overheads, having a bass tone that actually would cut through, and a guitar sound that didn't sound like it was recorded in an untreated utility closet... well gee, nothing i guess.

 

[LSD-Studio]

other than filtering out tons of mud, giving the kick a more defined attack and punch, turning up the bottom snare track, replacing the plastic tubs used for toms with actual toms, not having all the bad edits so obvious in the overheads, having a bass tone that actually would cut through, and a guitar sound that didn't sound like it was recorded in an untreated utility closet... well gee, nothing i guess.

 

[James Murphy]

FTR, i love Immolation, and CTAWB... great album, killer band, and old friends. I would never be shy to tell them how i thought of their productions though. i also don't really think they should change what they do..... i enjoy it as is. i would do it different, but that's me. doesn't stop me from really digging them a lot, as i have for years, ever since Ross gave me their demo in 1989.