the pro tools back lash

[Uladyne]

Audio recordings are unnatural and dishonest anyway. We should all stop. Andy and James and every other professional audio engineer should stop what they're doing and find work in another field, like farming or construction.

Music consumers must be told of the horrific fact that the music they're listening to isn't actually being played by a live band inside their car stereo/TV/ipod/computer. True music fans with any integrity whatsoever will then abandon listening to any form of fake music and only attend concerts for aural pleasure.

And only acoustic instruments will be allowed!!!

"Music" that has been transformed into electrical signals and converted to numbers or imprinted on tape and canned for later use is just inhumane.

And P.A. systems? Come on! I don't want to listen to paper cones and their skewed interpretation of music, I want to hear the band play. Naturally!

I say we all go "organic" and listen only to acoustic instruments being played live in front of us so we know that no unnatural elements or toxic preservatives are being added without our knowledge. No more trickery!

 

[LSD-Studio]

I say we all go "organic" and listen only to acoustic instruments being played live in front of us so we know that no unnatural elements or toxic preservatives are being added without our knowledge. No more trickery!

you just gotta eliminate the rooms influence since it's altering the sonics dramatically

 

[James Murphy]

I think i just did.

no sher, shitlock, i agreed with you... and i never said these types of bands don't exist.... i merely said that if you show me a drummer that needs no editing, it's because he's a great drummer, not because of great engineering. and just so you know, there's definitely some punches and/or editing in there.. i can hear it in the overheads.

Anyway.. because i also tell the same opinions i post here to bands, i get more and more bands that share that opinion, and these bands are the ones that are able to throw it down live, fully rehearsed.

well let's hear them man.... music talks, bullshit walks.. bust it out chief.

Those are not always the ones with the truckloads of money, but i'd rather record 10 of those bands to make the same money i do recording one big band i need to edit for several days and lose my fun recording music on.

hooray.

what most of that had to do with the actual industry and what the reality on the ground is, i don't know... but rock on.... and while you're at it, send some of these killer bands that need zero editing my way, ok? don't be greedy now.

 

[Aaron Smith]

Here's something to ponder: You're standing in a room, with a good drummer playing a metal beat, and the consistency of his kick drum (velocity and tempo) sounds great. The snare sounds big and punchy and awesome. Now go into the control room and listen back through the mics... There is A LOT more detail you can hear in the kick dynamics when listening through the mic, than you can hear when listening in a room full of loud sound waves right off the kit, right? The frequency response of the attack can sound different each hit, and that's a sound that you don't hear when in the room. Same goes for the snare- in the room, the snare sounds punchy, but through the mic, it needs some processing and the smack of a compressor to have that same impact when being played back through some studio monitors. I personally don't think that the sound of microphones on a drum kit even do a drum set 100% justice when it comes to capturing the power and vibe that you hear when standing in the room with a kit. If this is the case, then sample replacing can be viewed more as a way to capture the way a kit sounds in person, rather than the way it sounds through microphones. If anything, you are hearing less detail when in a room with a kit, so why should using a sample-replaced kick track be such a no-no, when it's actually kind of replicating what you hear in a room? Hopefully I am making sense... I don't know if anyone else has thought of it this way.

 

[James Murphy]

I like the Sneap sound, it's what brought me here. I also like raw, fucked up sounding productions like the new Satyricon. I think a world where diversity exists is good.

and shane nails it on the head.

 

[paladin shredder]

I say we all go "organic" and listen only to acoustic instruments being played live in front of us so we know that no unnatural elements or toxic preservatives are being added without our knowledge. No more trickery!

I say we go even further. lets get rid of all man made musical instruments since they produce unnatural combination's of frequency's not found in nature "organically"

 

[Uladyne]

I say we go even further. lets get rid of all man made musical instruments since they produce unnatural combination's of frequency's not found in nature "organically"

Now we're getting somewhere! Rocks only! You can only tap them together and roll them on larger stones. Then we'll have real Rock n' Roll.

I guess sticks and branches will work too.

Sadly, Metal will be impossible. Not organic.

 

[Jaymz]

show me a drummer that needs no editing,

Derek Roddy stays quite natural performance wise dosen't he?

 

[Metaltastic]

Clearly this guy knows what's up:

 

[cobhc]

Yeah man, he's better than Triviums drummer, and he didn't use triggers!

 

[James Murphy]

Derek Roddy stays quite natural performance wise dosen't he?

last time, what i said was that if you show me a drummer that needs no editing, it's because he's a great drummer, not because of great engineering. it's not all that clever to take half a quote and misuse it you know. i've recorded many drummers who needed no, or virtually no, editing.... including Deen Castronovo, Steve Smith, Jeremy Colson, and Brian Harris, just to name a few. so.... one more time for the hard-of-reading: i did not say that good drummers do not exist. ok?

 

[Jaymz]

last time, what i said wasthat if you show me a drummer that needs no editing, it's because he's a great drummer, not because of great engineering. it's not all that clever to take half a quote and misuse it you know. i've recorded many drummers who needed no, or virtually no, editing.... including Deen Castronovo, Steve Smith, Jeremy Colson, and Brian Harris, just to name a few. so.... one more time for the hard-of-reading: i did not say that good drummers do not exist. ok?

No I was asking it as a genuine question, ive seen his studio vids, but have you ever met/worked with him?

 

[James Murphy]

no, sorry.. never played with him

 

[NNotN-ENN]

And even Derek as a great metal drummer who does realise the need for hitting consistenly at all speeds knows that you can't get the right clarity out of certain acoustic drums (namely kicks) once you get up to a certain speed/style of playing. In fact alot of videos I have seen of him lately have had him saying things like "this is about as fast as you'd wanna go without triggers".

I do feel a great amount of sympathy for Andy and James and anyone else who's forced into doing things in any way other than their own by labels, or just industry in general. It really is an eye opener to find out that you guys are required to do this amount of turd polishing!

 

[ahjteam]

anyway, you show me the metal drummer who plays consistently enough and can do so on time and on budget, and doesn't charge a prohibitive fee, and i'll hire him for ALL my recordings.

I could name 12 from Finland alone in just 10 minutes (all professional drummers like Kai Hahto, Antti Lehtinen, Anssi Nykänen, Sami Kuoppamäki, Sampo Neuvonen, Rainer Tuomikanto, Sami Latva, Heikki Saari, Ville Sahakangas, Baba Utriainen, Heikki Malmberg, Jarmo Pikka) and if it would be nessecary, I could get phonenumbers from 11 of them in just a few phonecalls. All humans, but still professional level drummers and with exception of Anssi Nykänen, Antti Lehtinen and Sami Kuoppamäki who are all arounders (but I know that they have played on metalrecords), those are mainly metal drummers. And considering that the recording budgets in Finland are usually about 5-50 thousand euros (for example as far as know, the most expensive commercial studio, Finnvox, is about 1000 euros per day with the engineer (the Sibelius Academy studio might be a little bit more expensive tho)), which is way below the budgets in the USA, I wouldn't consider that a bad deal to hire a studio and and a professional studio session players in here. Thats why many metal bands go to Sweden to record their albums; It's just so much cheaper to do there.

 

[Andy Sneap]

you cant polish a turd but you can spray it silver as they say.

 

[Andy Sneap]

I could name 12 from Finland alone in just 10 minutes (all professional drummers like Kai Hahto, Antti Lehtinen, Anssi Nykänen, Sami Kuoppamäki, Sampo Neuvonen, Rainer Tuomikanto, Sami Latva, Heikki Saari, Ville Sahakangas, Baba Utriainen, Heikki Malmberg, Jarmo Pikka) and if it would be nessecary, I could get phonenumbers from 11 of them in just a few phonecalls.

never of any of them but I'm diggin their names....

 

[TheDude]

never of any of them but I'm diggin their names....

+1 except that I've seen Kai Hahto on Youtube only but hey, that's not a drummer. He's a robot that's supercharged!

 

[cobhc]

I could name 12 from Finland alone in just 10 minutes (all professional drummers like Kai Hahto, Antti Lehtinen, Anssi Nykänen, Sami Kuoppamäki, Sampo Neuvonen, Rainer Tuomikanto, Sami Latva, Heikki Saari, Ville Sahakangas, Baba Utriainen, Heikki Malmberg, Jarmo Pikka) and if it would be nessecary, I could get phonenumbers from 11 of them in just a few phonecalls. All humans, but still.

Kai Hahto is awesome, but they still used samples on the kick on the self titled Wintersun album, so obviously he wasn't hitting his kicks consistently enough.

 

[ahjteam]

never of any of them but I'm diggin their names....

The main bands:

Kai Hahto - Rotten Sound, Wintersun
Antti Lehtinen - Eilera (studio), Ultra Bra, Scandinavian Music Group
Sampo Neuvonen - Eilera (live), Hanna Pakarinen (live)
Heikki Malmberg - Diablo, Manzana, Dame
Sami Kuoppamäki - Kingston Wall, Von Hertzen Brothers
Anssi Nykänen - the most used studiosession drummer in Finland
Baba Utriainen - Cyan Velvet Project
Heikki Saari - Norther
Rainer Tuomikanto - Dead Shape Figure
Sami Latva - Rotten Sound
Ville Sahakangas - Nicole
Jarmo Pikka - Omnium Gatherum

Kai Hahto is awesome, but they still used samples on the kick on the self titled Wintersun album, so obviously he wasn't hitting his kicks consistently enough.

Kai Hahto is school math teacher by profession But honestly, I once talked with him when he still was in Rotten Sound and he said something along the lines that at those speeds its really more wise to use triggers because the clarity of the hits suffers at past 200bpm