The what's going on in Thrash thread

[redfly]

I have often thought the same thing with some tours. I know promoters sell it as trying to crossover audiences but it's their job to sell it. I suppose it gives some people a chance to go home early

It's seems very odd. LOA was kind of one of those bands that was like F metal back in the day.

 

[redfly]

It is generally across the board fucked. Authors generally only get about 10-20% of sales. When it comes to vanity publishers (the ones that ask for several thousand dollars up front to publish) that increases to about 50% in some cases but the big difference for authors is that they can usually get somewhere between 80-100% of sales for self pub/epub depending on contracts. I'm not sure that bands get that much from e-sales/streaming music but I wouldn't mind betting they don't.

Yeah but at least the other genres get tv and movie and all sorts of other promotion that helps push their sales.

 

[Slammed]

It's seems very odd. LOA was kind of one of those bands that was like F metal back in the day.

Yeah it does seem odd.
What is even more odd is that I had a very similar conversation with someone on another forum a few years ago, he was adamant they don't put unlike bands on the same gigs and I thought he was full of shit and gave him a list of seemingly incompatible bands who toured this country. And right now I can't think of one tour group that was on that list

 

[redfly]

I think it was more prevalent 10 years ago. I guess especially if you need a big package to go somewhere like Australia. I think there are more metal bands around now, which makes it seem even more odd that they would have LOA. Were they just scrambling to get someone at the last minute?

 

[Slammed]

Yeah but at least the other genres get tv and movie and all sorts of other promotion that helps push their sales.

Yeah I often wonder how much different there is between a band that gets media saturation and one that doesn't. These pop acts seem to make lots of money but obviously they spend a lot too. The old adage that you have to spend money to make money is true and I'm sure some of those pop acts spend millions to make thousands where as many metal acts just can't spend that, but lets face it the bands we are listening too are still making enough money to not need day jobs and tour the world every few years, that's still gotta be a fair pay cheque each week.

 

[Slammed]

I think it was more prevalent 10 years ago. I guess especially if you need a big package to go somewhere like Australia. I think there are more metal bands around now, which makes it seem even more odd that they would have LOA. Were they just scrambling to get someone at the last minute?

I suppose it could be something to do with labels in some cases but even looking at those overseas festivals some of them are out of whack. There has been plenty of times I've looked at o/s festivals and thought I'd take half the bands from each day and instead of a three day concert make a one day killer gig and let all the other bands play the following day when I don't turn up. But instead they make three days with a few thrash acts, a few old school bands and then throw in some metal core just to make it less appealing.

 

[redfly]

I think it's a huge difference. Look at what they do for new bands that get some airplay. They blow up and then they get magazine and tv spots and movie soundtracks. And basically become celebrated. And most of these bands aren't even that good. If the veteran bands, say a band like flotsam got some airplay. There would be plenty of kids that would be blown away by them. Bands like Disturbed and Godsmack aren't that good. but they got some airplay early on and that has propelled them. And they continue to get it. When metal bands do actually get some airplay they become huge. Pantera got huge because they got airplay. They weren't really better than the other bands. But someone took a chance and put them on and people ate it up. Same with Megadeth when they started getting airplay. All the metal bands that got airplay got big returns and just that little bit back in the day has sustained them. All our bands need is the opportunity. But with almost all the radio stations being owned by two companies. That opportunity doesn't really exist anymore.
Pop and hip hop music just gets mass produced, it's easy and cheap to make. Are they any good? No it's pop. Sure some people love it. But plenty of other people just don't ever hear anything else. If the pop world were treated like metal would they still make music? I seriously doubt it. I wish I had a radio station!
And action movie soundtracks are fucking ruined today!!!

 

[redfly]

I suppose it could be something to do with labels in some cases but even looking at those overseas festivals some of them are out of whack. There has been plenty of times I've looked at o/s festivals and thought I'd take half the bands from each day and instead of a three day concert make a one day killer gig and let all the other bands play the following day when I don't turn up. But instead they make three days with a few thrash acts, a few old school bands and then throw in some metal core just to make it less appealing.

So fucking true!

 

[Slammed]

I think it's a huge difference. Look at what they do for new bands that get some airplay. They blow up and then they get magazine and tv spots and movie soundtracks. And basically become celebrated. And most of these bands aren't even that good. If the veteran bands, say a band like flotsam got some airplay. There would be plenty of kids that would be blown away by them. Bands like Disturbed and Godsmack aren't that good. but they got some airplay early on and that has propelled them. And they continue to get it. When metal bands do actually get some airplay they become huge. Pantera got huge because they got airplay. They weren't really better than the other bands. But someone took a chance and put them on and people ate it up. Same with Megadeth when they started getting airplay. All the metal bands that got airplay got big returns and just that little bit back in the day has sustained them. All our bands need is the opportunity. But with almost all the radio stations being owned by two companies. That opportunity doesn't really exist anymore.
Pop and hip hop music just gets mass produced, it's easy and cheap to make. Are they any good? No it's pop. Sure some people love it. But plenty of other people just don't ever hear anything else. If the pop world were treated like metal would they still make music? I seriously doubt it. I wish I had a radio station!
And action movie soundtracks are fucking ruined today!!!

My outlook is a but different, but our metrics are also different. Hip hop might be cheaper to make, no idea it's not huge here, but pop wouldn't be any cheaper to make. The likes of Taylor Swift, Elton John any of those musicians require session musos, some require large bands of session musos, that doesn't come cheap. They use producers who have worked on other big albums that pedigree means they demand larger pay cheques. Everything they do because of how big they are costs money. Of course they can afford more because of the saturation they get and it becomes a never ending circle of spending money to make money. The only real difference with metal is that it's done on a smaller scale. Metallica did it on the big scale and everyone hated them for it, so it's easy to argue that metal has never been and continues to not be ready for mainstream success that pop has.

Personally I don't worry about how much more they saturate the world with pop music. I don't listen to the radio and watch very little by way of ads on TV or the computer so even if metal was saturated I wouldn't see it, but I also wouldn't want to. There is millions of bands out there who wont ever make the kind of money pop acts do, but that doesn't mean they aren't making good money. If you can afford to not have a day job and still put food on the plate for you and your family while doing what you love do you really need to make the millions of dollars the pop acts do?

 

[Slammed]

I was looking through YT suggestions for something to listen to a few minutes ago and down near the bottom of the list they suggest "ROCK MUSIC" and the four suggested video for the rock music category are all Metal Church

 

[redfly]

My outlook is a but different, but our metrics are also different. Hip hop might be cheaper to make, no idea it's not huge here, but pop wouldn't be any cheaper to make. The likes of Taylor Swift, Elton John any of those musicians require session musos, some require large bands of session musos, that doesn't come cheap. They use producers who have worked on other big albums that pedigree means they demand larger pay cheques. Everything they do because of how big they are costs money. Of course they can afford more because of the saturation they get and it becomes a never ending circle of spending money to make money. The only real difference with metal is that it's done on a smaller scale. Metallica did it on the big scale and everyone hated them for it, so it's easy to argue that metal has never been and continues to not be ready for mainstream success that pop has.

Personally I don't worry about how much more they saturate the world with pop music. I don't listen to the radio and watch very little by way of ads on TV or the computer so even if metal was saturated I wouldn't see it, but I also wouldn't want to. There is millions of bands out there who wont ever make the kind of money pop acts do, but that doesn't mean they aren't making good money. If you can afford to not have a day job and still put food on the plate for you and your family while doing what you love do you really need to make the millions of dollars the pop acts do?

That's part of what erks me lol. These people don't have the talent to make their own music. But people talk about them like they're geniuses.

I just think of the 80's and early 90's, those bands sold huge and I think were nearly on par with the other genres in sales. Some did even better. But mtv and radio ditched them for no real reason. And now pop and the others completely dominate. If radio and other mediums gave these bands a chance. I think they'd sell again no problem. I just don't like seeing good bands struggle when shite ones get treated like they are more important than they are. But that is where metal shines . They keep on going.

 

[redfly]

I was looking through YT suggestions for something to listen to a few minutes ago and down near the bottom of the list they suggest "ROCK MUSIC" and the four suggested video for the rock music category are all Metal Church

Oh good lord. I hope it's old stuff!

 

[Slammed]

That's part of what erks me lol. These people don't have the talent to make their own music. But people talk about them like they're geniuses.

I just think of the 80's and early 90's, those bands sold huge and I think were nearly on par with the other genres in sales. Some did even better. But mtv and radio ditched them for no real reason. And now pop and the others completely dominate. If radio and other mediums gave these bands a chance. I think they'd sell again no problem. I just don't like seeing good bands struggle when shite ones get treated like they are more important than they are. But that is where metal shines . They keep on going.

But what is the judge of talent? Taylor Swift can sing, she can play guitar, but above all she has appeal. Elton John is probably one of the best pianist in the world. Kerry Perry, Miley Cyrus, even someone like Ricky Martin can sing and sing their chosen music well. I don't know anything about Hip Hop so I can't comment on that but even those who only sing and rely on other musos have a talent and are not that much different to someone like Rob Halford or Bruce Dickinson who don't play instruments and require a band behind them to be a part of a band. Having the large push of the publicity bandwagon doesn't make these people less talented just like it doesn't make them more talented it really just makes them marketable. Even if you remove her talent as a singer Taylor Swift is a very smart business woman, she realised early in her career that country music was not where the money was so she reinvented herself and moved into crossover pop/country and took the fans from both. She didn't become as big as she did by mistake, she worked hard at it. Metallica worked hard at what they did and half their fans claimed they sold out. I'm sure metal could be more marketable but like most businesses the music industry would rather put their money on a sure fire thing and right now that sure fire thing is pop. I don't have a problem with that, I'm more likely to follow bands not in the mainstream anyway.

Metal may not have had the same opportunities to cash in on the megabucks that were thrown at pop but many of the bands didn't want to. But honestly how many saleable metal bands are struggling? How many are on the verge of breaking up? I'm sure the figure of bands breaking up due to infighting would be greater than those who are popular and have to break up because they aren't getting played on the radio. The excessiveness that is pop music and how much the stars of it make is ridiculous but struggling to be is not being able to put food on the table, relying on welfare and not able to pay bills. If any band, metal or not, is struggling that bad then there is more reasons for it than just because pop gets played on the radio and gets the megashare of the consumer dollar.

 

[Slammed]

Oh good lord. I hope it's old stuff!

No, two new clips, one from XI and one old live clip which was as grainy as shit and I wouldn't have clicked even if I was interested.

 

[redfly]

I am the judge of talent in my definition of it. Look at you, sticking up for pop. So cute.
All I can say is. Metal was on the radio. Metal did well. Metal and most rock gets the shaft. Pop culture crumbles to absolute dog shit! Lot's of people can sing and play guitar. But if you're making millions and millions of dollars and being called an artist, you should be able to write you're own songs. Otherwise you're just a product to market. For every pop person that has any talent there's 10 times more that can't play anything, can't sing, can't hold a key or time. And everything has the aid of a program. And still get treated like gold because they are pretty and marketable. And that's fine too. But metal and rock should at least get a decent shake at radio. And here in the US all the stations except a bare few got bought out by corporate radio. People don't even get to really decide if they like it or not because everything is pop or hip hop in the US. All tv ,nearly all movies, all the commercials and all the air play. Except for a few bands. And those bands do pretty well. So why not more? That's all I'm asking. If you can do it for a handful. Why can't you do it for more. Metal does better in other countries because there is more of a playing field. They may not have the mega corp stations like we have here, Idk. I mean, I've watched it happen as I've grown up. People didn't just wake up out of nowhere one day buying metal and then the next day say metal sucks. It got pushed out. If the internet had been around like it is now when it happened it may have been different. All I want is a decent shot for these bands. I think actual artists should have a better shot than they do. There is room for all genres, there always has been. But not if one side is constantly pushed and one isn't at all. And if metal did no better so be it. But at least they had an honest chance.

 

[redfly]

No, two new clips, one from XI and one old live clip which was as grainy as shit and I wouldn't have clicked even if I was interested.

Barf.

 

[Slammed]

I am the judge of talent in my definition of it. Look at you, sticking up for pop. So cute.
All I can say is. Metal was on the radio. Metal did well. Metal and most rock gets the shaft. Pop culture crumbles to absolute dog shit! Lot's of people can sing and play guitar. But if you're making millions and millions of dollars and being called an artist, you should be able to write you're own songs. Otherwise you're just a product to market. For every pop person that has any talent there's 10 times more that can't play anything, can't sing, can't hold a key or time. And everything has the aid of a program. And still get treated like gold because they are pretty and marketable. And that's fine too. But metal and rock should at least get a decent shake at radio. And here in the US all the stations except a bare few got bought out by corporate radio. People don't even get to really decide if they like it or not because everything is pop or hip hop in the US. All tv ,nearly all movies, all the commercials and all the air play. Except for a few bands. And those bands do pretty well. So why not more? That's all I'm asking. If you can do it for a handful. Why can't you do it for more. Metal does better in other countries because there is more of a playing field. They may not have the mega corp stations like we have here, Idk. I mean, I've watched it happen as I've grown up. People didn't just wake up out of nowhere one day buying metal and then the next day say metal sucks. It got pushed out. If the internet had been around like it is now when it happened it may have been different. All I want is a decent shot for these bands. I think actual artists should have a better shot than they do. There is room for all genres, there always has been. But not if one side is constantly pushed and one isn't at all. And if metal did no better so be it. But at least they had an honest chance.

I don't hate pop, I listen to anything that tweaks my interest whether others judge it talentless or not. Everyone who dislikes a form of music sees it as talentless at one point or another. "Metal is just full of screaming", "You cant understands the lyrics", "He can't play the guitar and hides his mistakes with distortion", "Lars can't play drums". The insults and put downs are no different in each genre but the music is. I don't mind being cute but I also don't hold a grudge against someone because they get paid more than other musicians, just like I don't think everyone who earns more money than me in my chosen field is a talentless hack who got a better break than me. Money for me defines nothing, if Taylor Swift earns more than a metal guitarist or singer so be it she is more marketable and that alone dictates what she gets paid. The metal guitarist wont ever appeal to teeny boppers, screaming tweens and people who want to live their life dreaming of being a megastar, therefore he doesn't have the same marketable ability no matter how much talent he has. That alone is reason why metal wont every have a 'fair share' thrown at it, however it doesn't mean the metal guitarist is not still living his own high life.

When it comes to metal and radio, metal and over saturation, metal and commercial viability, I really don't have a metric to measure from. Our metal radio shows in this country were one and two hour shows stuck in the midnight time slot and if we were lucky there was three or four a week. They were on community radio that was listened to by 1/10th of the listeners top 40/pop stations got, even the few that made day time slots where not heavily listened to because top 40, pop, rock and easy listening was what the vox pop wanted. We had one music clips show on TV and it was Friday and Saturday night from midnight to 6am it played metal maybe once a month. The only time metal made headlines here was when shit like the Sepultura riots happened and that was bad news for everyone not just metal heads. But metal survived underground and that was where there fans wanted it at the time. We didn't want to hear Metallica, Megadeth, or Slayer on commercial radio, we wanted to sit up in the dark in the early hours of the morning and listen to it like it was some secret society. Proof of that was when Metallica started getting a slice of the money train and people turned off them because they "sold out". That was our metric and I don't know any metal heads that would want bands to be saturated on TV and radio like pop music is or want the kin of fans following their music that pop music has just because they got over played on the airwaves.

 

[Slammed]

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ro...dus-towards-the-end-it-became-about-business/

Still not Rob's biggest fan but I do like his stuff now more than I used to. Kind of surprised that he thinks it 'became' a business towards the end, I would have thought he knew it was a business long before the end. I guess there is some bitterness there and in his own mind he's got to make some excuse for why he was let go. But to suggest they brought Zetro back to make more money from the classic line up seems to only tell half the picture, especially when Gary took hiatus to join Slayer and the 'classic' line up wasn't playing. I suppose it could be said that Gary was a money hound and put money over the 'classic' line up if Exodus put money over having Dukes in the band.

Still think Zetro does a better job live

 

[redfly]

I don't hate pop, I listen to anything that tweaks my interest whether others judge it talentless or not. Everyone who dislikes a form of music sees it as talentless at one point or another. "Metal is just full of screaming", "You cant understands the lyrics", "He can't play the guitar and hides his mistakes with distortion", "Lars can't play drums". The insults and put downs are no different in each genre but the music is. I don't mind being cute but I also don't hold a grudge against someone because they get paid more than other musicians, just like I don't think everyone who earns more money than me in my chosen field is a talentless hack who got a better break than me. Money for me defines nothing, if Taylor Swift earns more than a metal guitarist or singer so be it she is more marketable and that alone dictates what she gets paid. The metal guitarist wont ever appeal to teeny boppers, screaming tweens and people who want to live their life dreaming of being a megastar, therefore he doesn't have the same marketable ability no matter how much talent he has. That alone is reason why metal wont every have a 'fair share' thrown at it, however it doesn't mean the metal guitarist is not still living his own high life.

When it comes to metal and radio, metal and over saturation, metal and commercial viability, I really don't have a metric to measure from. Our metal radio shows in this country were one and two hour shows stuck in the midnight time slot and if we were lucky there was three or four a week. They were on community radio that was listened to by 1/10th of the listeners top 40/pop stations got, even the few that made day time slots where not heavily listened to because top 40, pop, rock and easy listening was what the vox pop wanted. We had one music clips show on TV and it was Friday and Saturday night from midnight to 6am it played metal maybe once a month. The only time metal made headlines here was when shit like the Sepultura riots happened and that was bad news for everyone not just metal heads. But metal survived underground and that was where there fans wanted it at the time. We didn't want to hear Metallica, Megadeth, or Slayer on commercial radio, we wanted to sit up in the dark in the early hours of the morning and listen to it like it was some secret society. Proof of that was when Metallica started getting a slice of the money train and people turned off them because they "sold out". That was our metric and I don't know any metal heads that would want bands to be saturated on TV and radio like pop music is or want the kin of fans following their music that pop music has just because they got over played on the airwaves.

That's pretty much ignoring the fact that rock and metal was very marketable for decades and then poof, gone. But really you lost me at Ricky Martin has talent
Edit: The thing with Metallica for me is (and we've talked about this before) is they were huge before. They were selling out arenas before the Black album. But more than that they built a lot of their fanbase screaming about sellouts and money lol. So it was very hypocritical. I could have lived with the level they went to with the Black album. But Load went way too far.

 

[redfly]

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ro...dus-towards-the-end-it-became-about-business/

Still not Rob's biggest fan but I do like his stuff now more than I used to. Kind of surprised that he thinks it 'became' a business towards the end, I would have thought he knew it was a business long before the end. I guess there is some bitterness there and in his own mind he's got to make some excuse for why he was let go. But to suggest they brought Zetro back to make more money from the classic line up seems to only tell half the picture, especially when Gary took hiatus to join Slayer and the 'classic' line up wasn't playing. I suppose it could be said that Gary was a money hound and put money over the 'classic' line up if Exodus put money over having Dukes in the band.

Still think Zetro does a better job live

I thought everything with Dukes that I saw live was really good. Maybe they thought bringing Zetro back was going to make them bigger and it didn't who knows. Maybe it did. Either way I appreciated his time in the band. I'm sure his take on what business meant was based on something he experienced. He was a roadie I think before he joined as singer? I'm sure some of it is sour grapes . I don't really blame him I guess. He had a really good band and now he's got whatever he's got. I'm not sure who else could have fronted Exodus when Zetro left. Except Chuck! So in my opinion he kind of saved them.
BUT! I haven't read the interview yet! lol.