The what's going on in Thrash thread

[Slammed]

You lost me at Ricky Martin has talent

I'd hate to not be able to see talent in all forms of music. I'd feel so closed in and bored that I'd stop listening to things. When I first heard Neil Diamond's Hot August Night music changed for me, it wasn't just music, it was total immersion, kind of like listening to Pink Floyd with headphones when stoned. That Neil Diamond album is still well and beyond many live albums released today in terms of music quality and production. I remember listening to Queen's Made In Heaven CD, the first CD I bought which was recorded in full surround sound. That album was again total immersion, being completely lost in the music was so easy and feeling every instrument and mood was amazing. Ricky Martin's Living La Via Loco was the same thing, whether it was the best song in the world, didn't matter it was still a massive experience to hear and listen too. But if I was to think that any of those people were less talented than a few tattooed, long haired guys with guitars in their hands would make me want to give up listening to music.

 

[Slammed]

I thought everything with Dukes that I saw live was really good. Maybe they thought bringing Zetro back was going to make them bigger and it didn't who knows. Maybe it did. Either way I appreciated his time in the band. I'm sure his take on what business meant was based on something he experienced. He was a roadie I think before he joined as singer? I'm sure some of it is sour grapes . I don't really blame him I guess. He had a really good band and now he's got whatever he's got. I'm not sure who else could have fronted Exodus when Zetro left. Except Chuck! So in my opinion he kind of saved them.
BUT! I haven't read the interview yet! lol.

I think I appreciate Rob's studio work more than his live stuff, but then a few years ago I didn't like his studio stuff much, so with more time maybe I'll change my mind. I couldn't get into that video in the article this morning, but I don't think that was all Rob's fault, the sound was not great. I don't really have a problem if Exodus did get rid of him for 'business' reasons, Exodus is a business it would be silly to run with a business deal that wasn't the best and if the band thought that was the best who am I to argue. I think Rob does come off as a little bitter but ask me about any job I was asked to leave and I'll happily tell you the boss was a prick and that getting rid of me was a poor decision.

 

[redfly]

I'd hate to not be able to see talent in all forms of music. I'd feel so closed in and bored that I'd stop listening to things. When I first heard Neil Diamond's Hot August Night music changed for me, it wasn't just music, it was total immersion, kind of like listening to Pink Floyd with headphones when stoned. That Neil Diamond album is still well and beyond many live albums released today in terms of music quality and production. I remember listening to Queen's Made In Heaven CD, the first CD I bought which was recorded in full surround sound. That album was again total immersion, being completely lost in the music was so easy and feeling every instrument and mood was amazing. Ricky Martin's Living La Via Loco was the same thing, whether it was the best song in the world, didn't matter it was still a massive experience to hear and listen too. But if I was to think that any of those people were less talented than a few tattooed, long haired guys with guitars in their hands would make me want to give up listening to music.

You sound like you don't think very much of metal. Like I've not heard other music? I've heard it all. I like metal. And respect classical. It's the only music that challenges me as a guitar player. I respect people who challenge themselves with their instruments every day. Metal and rock/classic rock are better than all other genres. Ricky Martin being a massive experience really makes me laugh.
And I don't really mean offence to you. But that guy honestly makes me laugh.

 

[redfly]

I think I appreciate Rob's studio work more than his live stuff, but then a few years ago I didn't like his studio stuff much, so with more time maybe I'll change my mind. I couldn't get into that video in the article this morning, but I don't think that was all Rob's fault, the sound was not great. I don't really have a problem if Exodus did get rid of him for 'business' reasons, Exodus is a business it would be silly to run with a business deal that wasn't the best and if the band thought that was the best who am I to argue. I think Rob does come off as a little bitter but ask me about any job I was asked to leave and I'll happily tell you the boss was a prick and that getting rid of me was a poor decision.

It sounds like his bitterness didn't last and he's strictly speaking of a brief time. Especially after just getting married. And I get that. You think you have a life and then you don't. But hey Exodus made their decision and that's that.
I do like the Rob versions of Blood in better than the finished product with Zetro. But then I was never the biggest Zetro fan.

 

[redfly]

You sound like you don't think very much of metal. Like I've not heard other music? I've heard it all. I like metal. And respect classical. It's the only music that challenges me as a guitar player. I respect people who challenge themselves with their instruments every day. Metal and rock/classic rock are better than all other genres. Ricky Martin being a massive experience really makes me laugh.
And I don't really mean offence to you. But that guy honestly makes me laugh.

That sounded harsh. It's not really meant to be You like what you like. I like what I like. I've had very strong opinions about music since I was 3 years old.

 

[Slammed]

You sound like you don't think very much of metal. Like I've not heard other music? I've heard it all. I like metal. And respect classical. It's the only music that challenges me as a guitar player. I respect people who challenge themselves with their instruments every day. Metal and rock/classic rock are better than all other genres. Ricky Martin being a massive experience really makes me laugh.

I don't know what you listen to or have listened to only what you'd stated here. I make no assumptions of exactly what you've heard but by your own words you do often show little respect for many other forms of music, even when metal artists preform it. That makes no difference to me, I don't understand it but I also don't assume wrongness purely because I don't understand it. Taste is individual and will always be.

It's the same when it comes to passing off other artists as talentless because they play music I don't like. I don't understand the blinkered look at things, to me its the equivalent of saying no one but those on my favourite sports team can play the sport they get paid to play. Or the only good actors are the actors in movies I like. It's not a blinkered look I could ever share, but suggesting someone is wrong because they have it is not my game when explaining my own thoughts.

 

[Slammed]

It sounds like his bitterness didn't last and he's strictly speaking of a brief time. Especially after just getting married. And I get that. You think you have a life and then you don't. But hey Exodus made their decision and that's that.
I do like the Rob versions of Blood in better than the finished product with Zetro. But then I was never the biggest Zetro fan.

For Rob's sake I hope he gets over it before he becomes like KK. I really wasn't listening to Exodus when Rob first came in and when I did go back to them I think I went back not realising they'd replaced Zetro so it was a surprise. I think that surprise change gave me mixed feelings about Rob at the time.

 

[Slammed]

That sounded harsh. It's not really meant to be You like what you like. I like what I like. I've had very strong opinions about music since I was 3 years old.

It's not harsh, we like what we like. I've had strong opinions about music since a similar age and I used to defend metal like no one else, but in the end I got sick of it. I then started to realise there was so much more music available that metal alone didn't deserve such blind dedication any more. Doesn't make either opinion wrong, just difference sides of the fence.

 

[redfly]

I don't know what you listen to or have listened to only what you'd stated here. I make no assumptions of exactly what you've heard but by your own words you do often show little respect for many other forms of music, even when metal artists preform it. That makes no difference to me, I don't understand it but I also don't assume wrongness purely because I don't understand it. Taste is individual and will always be.

It's the same when it comes to passing off other artists as talentless because they play music I don't like. I don't understand the blinkered look at things, to me its the equivalent of saying no one but those on my favourite sports team can play the sport they get paid to play. Or the only good actors are the actors in movies I like. It's not a blinkered look I could ever share, but suggesting someone is wrong because they have it is not my game when explaining my own thoughts.

Oh I have zero respect for pop lol. None at all. But it doesn't mean I have a problem with you for liking it. My thing is I don't feel they are making music really. They are having music made for them. But it's more about the way they are treated versus the way metal is. I wouldn't compare acting to music. It's two completely different mediums.

 

[redfly]

It's not harsh, we like what we like. I've had strong opinions about music since a similar age and I used to defend metal like no one else, but in the end I got sick of it. I then started to realise there was so much more music available that metal alone didn't deserve such blind dedication any more. Doesn't make either opinion wrong, just difference sides of the fence.

With me I find everything I need with metal. Between bands like Queensryche to Dream Theater to Testament and Death, Everything is covered for me. But it's done in a way that pushes boundaries and can make people think. And inspires people to pick up an instrument. To me pop is just there to make people jump up and down. I don't find it has much meaning to it.
But that's me.

 

[Slammed]

Oh I have zero respect for pop lol. None at all. But it doesn't mean I have a problem with you for liking it. My thing is I don't feel they are making music really. They are having music made for them. But it's more about the way they are treated versus the way metal is. I wouldn't compare acting to music. It's two completely different mediums.

I don't like everything about pop, but I also don't see it all as manufactured. However I also don't believe that metal bands aren't using the same or similar studio magic to make things sound better or having producers telling them what they need to sound like. There might well be a visible unfairness between metal and pop when it comes to exposure but if Chuck Billy was treated like Taylor Swift and given a shitload of money to make an album, then offered millions to tour he would do what he was told or not accept the money. Maybe it's not fair to that he hasn't been offered the money and she has, but think of it as the worst case scenario, he was offered the money and to prove metal could be popular he took it then had to jump through the same hoops every other pop artist does. That would make metal a joke.

Until I see a bunch of musos I like hitting the welfare lines and struggling to actually live I'm going to assume the big pay cheques they get are worth it to keep metal as underground as it needs to be.

 

[Slammed]

With me I find everything I need with metal. Between bands like Queensryche to Dream Theater to Testament and Death, Everything is covered for me. But it's done in a way that pushes boundaries and can make people think. And inspires people to pick up an instrument. To me pop is just there to make people jump up and down. I don't find it has much meaning to it.
But that's me.

I used to think the same, although I first started thinking of it with 70's rock that parents disliked, but then I started to realise that for everything I saw in the music I was listening to someone saw the same thing in every other genre. I don't jump up and down when I hear a pop song and I don't care if others do, I don't jump up and down under the guise of slam dancing when I listen to metal either. But when so many people felt the urge to tell me metal and hard rock, even shit like Zeppelin and Purple that was topping the charts in the 70's was shit, had no feeling or was just noise I realised I no longer wanted to be like them so I started giving more music a chance. I still don't like a lot of stuff that is popular, but I can't hate it all like I once thought I could.

 

[redfly]

I don't like everything about pop, but I also don't see it all as manufactured. However I also don't believe that metal bands aren't using the same or similar studio magic to make things sound better or having producers telling them what they need to sound like. There might well be a visible unfairness between metal and pop when it comes to exposure but if Chuck Billy was treated like Taylor Swift and given a shitload of money to make an album, then offered millions to tour he would do what he was told or not accept the money. Maybe it's not fair to that he hasn't been offered the money and she has, but think of it as the worst case scenario, he was offered the money and to prove metal could be popular he took it then had to jump through the same hoops every other pop artist does. That would make metal a joke.

Until I see a bunch of musos I like hitting the welfare lines and struggling to actually live I'm going to assume the big pay cheques they get are worth it to keep metal as underground as it needs to be.

Well, I think if a band can pull off live what was done in the studio it's fine. If they can't then it's fucking stupid. But I'm not really sure what metal bands you're referring to that use studio tricks, or what tricks those are.
I don't think we can speak for Chuck, especially considering the front man of a band that has the talent to do much more commercial music and chooses not to.

 

[redfly]

I used to think the same, although I first started thinking of it with 70's rock that parents disliked, but then I started to realise that for everything I saw in the music I was listening to someone saw the same thing in every other genre. I don't jump up and down when I hear a pop song and I don't care if others do, I don't jump up and down under the guise of slam dancing when I listen to metal either. But when so many people felt the urge to tell me metal and hard rock, even shit like Zeppelin and Purple that was topping the charts in the 70's was shit, had no feeling or was just noise I realised I no longer wanted to be like them so I started giving more music a chance. I still don't like a lot of stuff that is popular, but I can't hate it all like I once thought I could.

I feel a lot of that is the times. In the 70's the music the generation before was listening to was very different. It was much more polite music. And didn't have all the distortion of the 70's and late 60's. The gap between the music from the late 60's on isn't so great. In todays age. Honestly in today's world the people that would say metal is just noise..well I would ask them to name a metal band lol.

 

[Slammed]

The entire studio is tricks that can't be done on stage. Multi-layer tracks for all instruments and vocals, electronic assistance with sound to remove the peaks and troughs. The studio for pop artists is not that different to a studio for metal bands. I remember sitting down with producers 20 years ago and having them talk about why albums and gigs sound so different, that shit still happens.

Being commercial goes hand in hand with being offered more money, every one of those tailored pop stars gets told what to play, who to play with and when they will do things. Inject that same money into metal and metal musos would have to jump through the same commercial hoops. That's a Metallica metal world, not a real metal world.

 

[redfly]

I'm sure some bands do that. But I think a lot of bands can pull it off live. Like when I listen to Overkill live I hear what's on the album. Unless they have shit running behind the curtain I don't know about. I'll concede there are things like dubbing in three guitars when you only have two players or vocal effects. But that's not exactly what I mean buy studio help. I'm mean things like auto tune and getting editing because they just can't pull it off. And then live they need those programs running. Or straight up lip syncing.

I don't think that last statement is completely true. Sabbath did very well and I feel like they did it by being themselves. Pantera did very well. There's nothing commercial about Pantera. There are others, but I'm tired lol. I don't think you're wrong completely. But I don't think that it's set in stone either.

 

[redfly]

I (think) this is the show.

 

[redfly]

It said this was the full show but it isn't. And I can't find it. I don't get what happened to it.

 

[Slammed]

I'm sure some bands do that. But I think a lot of bands can pull it off live. Like when I listen to Overkill live I hear what's on the album. Unless they have shit running behind the curtain I don't know about. I'll concede there are things like dubbing in three guitars when you only have two players or vocal effects. But that's not exactly what I mean buy studio help. I'm mean things like auto tune and getting editing because they just can't pull it off. And then live they need those programs running. Or straight up lip syncing.

I don't think that last statement is completely true. Sabbath did very well and I feel like they did it by being themselves. Pantera did very well. There's nothing commercial about Pantera. There are others, but I'm tired lol. I don't think you're wrong completely. But I don't think that it's set in stone either.

Realistically though auto tune is just a buzz word, there is a hundred other programs out there that studios use or can use that do the same thing auto tune was designed for. Live desks are just as powerful and controllable as studio desks, the producers need to work quicker and on the fly but the things these guys can do is just as impressive, it might not cover every studio trick but they can cover a lot.

Lip syncing sucks no matter who does it. I've hated the fact that so much 'live tv' often makes bands and singers lip sync and it's mostly because the powers that be believe it makes the performance error free. Concert lip syncing sucks too but it's not like that is a wide spread thing and bands/musos caught doing it have been shamed. I've not even a huge fan of backing tapes for live performances, but I bet for every band that has been caught, or suspected of using them there is five bands who haven't been caught and they'll be bands from all genres.

The problem with injecting even a portion of the money that pop gets into metal is that the people offering the money want a return for their upfront generosity. Pick any band and put them on the same level as any huge pop act and that band would have to return the money very quickly, the only way to do that is to put on the big shows, that means selling tickets, that means making a high profile on radio, tv and whatever. To many that's selling out. I think the TV shows like Idol etc prove that any shit can be marketed to success and metal would be no different, but is that what metal fans really want?

 

[Slammed]

I (think) this is the show.

Gary pulls off the psycho look too well some times

That is probably a better live performance that I have heard for a while. Everyone appears tight and they appear to be playing as a band.