to all the english mother tongues of this forum

[Line666]

Non native speakers are almost always more concerned with technicalities than native speakers.
You'll find this with your own languages too, I'm sure British kids that learn French, Spanish or German to a proficient level at school (3 main foreign languages taught) speak in a more rigid and quite possibly awkward way than people for whom it's their first language do.
Even though they may have a good understanding of the technical side of the language, in fact it's because they have been taught rather than organically inheriting the language, and understanding how it's actually implemented.

It's because there is much less formal learning of the technical side of the English, I don't know whether that's how it goes with other countries learning their own languages.

This. Native speakers are much more likely to suffer from technical failings than with phrasing that jars whereas people who know english as a second language are much more likely to pay attention to the initial technical rudiments at the expense of good phrasing or linguistic flow. This is really easily spotted in people who write English lyrics that are not native speaking as the presentation is often very clumsy. Having said all this, the amount of non-native speakers who have good sentence construction in regular written dialogue is really impressive - especially folks from Scandinavian countries. I also have to give mad props to Dan because of all the non-native speakers on this forum I think he is the only one which I would genuinely not be able to tell if I didn't already know.

Also even as a native speaker I have trouble with the sheer amount of adjectives at my disposal in anything verbal, my speech is a clusterfuck of mixed metaphors and adjectives because I know so many I end up inadvertently combining stuff and forming neologisms to the chagrin of pedants everywhere

 

[53Crëw]

Simply put, I think people just put more conscious effort into it when speaking a second language. You're trying to speak or write correctly in a language you are less accustomed to, therefore, you apply more conscious effort.

I'll also agree that this forum is a lot better than most.

 

[LeSedna]

On internet I think there is a bigger problem than the language, especially when I browse in english... Anytime someone doesn't agree with someone else (like on a youtube commentary), the first reaction -> "You're a fucking retard !" I'm happy this place is one of the few where when this happens it's (more or less ) deserved

 

[DanLights]

To me the only difficulty in english is how different something is expressed compared to a latin language and how different the sentence can be.

Or the particle verbs (like "to go on" vs "to continue") because some verbs like "make" can have dozens of meanings depending on the particle used, and this doesn't make sense for a latin language speaker, but that's how it is. So once you learn the "to make out / to make up / to make up for / to make after / whatever I don't even know them", and you understand how to express the future with the present tense, it's all about vocabulary and correct use of words and expressions imo. I still struggle with some of them because I wanna say things the latin way.

Yeah, phrasal verbs, my students hate them, but Spanish people are generally retarded when it comes to English so they hate everything I get what you mean though, completely different from Latin languages.

This. Native speakers are much more likely to suffer from technical failings than with phrasing that jars whereas people who know english as a second language are much more likely to pay attention to the initial technical rudiments at the expense of good phrasing or linguistic flow. This is really easily spotted in people who write English lyrics that are not native speaking as the presentation is often very clumsy. Having said all this, the amount of non-native speakers who have good sentence construction in regular written dialogue is really impressive - especially folks from Scandinavian countries. I also have to give mad props to Dan because of all the non-native speakers on this forum I think he is the only one which I would genuinely not be able to tell if I didn't already know.

Also even as a native speaker I have trouble with the sheer amount of adjectives at my disposal in anything verbal, my speech is a clusterfuck of mixed metaphors and adjectives because I know so many I end up inadvertently combining stuff and forming neologisms to the chagrin of pedants everywhere

I appreciate the complement, although I might be a bit of a cheater. I went through kindergarten up until 3rd grade in Houston, Texas, learned English as a first language with my parents forcing me to speak Spanish at home so I didn't forget it. So apart from having the fluency of a native speaker, I study the language because I make a living off teaching it here in Spain. Talk to me in person and you wouldn't think I'm a spic

 

[Line666]

That makes sense. I knew you taught English which explained the understanding of technical concepts - I truly am fucking awful at those - I have no idea what a subjunctive is and I have to remember that a "noun is a naming word, verb is a doing word and adjective is a describing word" every time I have to think about what I'm actually using even though I have one of the strongest implementations of the language in written form out of anyone I know. It's all totally instinctual though, I can't actually explain what I'm implementing half the time or how it works; I just have this base sense of whether its right or wrong.

 

[ratsapprentice]

^I'm in the same boat.

 

[DanLights]

That makes sense. I knew you taught English which explained the understanding of technical concepts - I truly am fucking awful at those - I have no idea what a subjunctive is and I have to remember that a "noun is a naming word, verb is a doing word and adjective is a describing word" every time I have to think about what I'm actually using even though I have one of the strongest implementations of the language in written form out of anyone I know. It's all totally instinctual though, I can't actually explain what I'm implementing half the time or how it works; I just have this base sense of whether its right or wrong.

I'm surprised to hear you have minimal grammar knowledge, because as you said yourself, you really show great control over the language at least in written form. But I do know what you mean, sometimes when students ask me about certain structures or phrases I just have to say "that's just how it is" cause I couldn't for the life of me explain why it's said that way.

I've done some reading on bilingualism lately (I'm intrigued by and very much interested in languages in general) and although there isn't a 100% agreed definition by most experts, I consider myself a "true bilingual", learned both languages in a natural way (environment, repetition) at a very young age and therefore I switch freely between both when thinking, dreaming, making personal notes, etc.

Although I am impressed by the general level of English in this forum full of non-native speakers, as someone else said, much better than most big internet forums.

 

[kaomao]

Wait wait wait. An Italian guy made a post complaining about common mistakes that native English speakers make? And then makes huge grammatical errors while saying that non-native English speakers don't make those errors?

I was joking Jeff lol
I know my english sucks so badly
forgot "up" at the end lol "It seems that we, the non-english mother tongues, don't fuck these things up."

 

[DanLights]

I was joking Jeff lol
I know my english sucks so badly

No offense, but you and the other Italian guy X.E.S. or something have the funniest English in the forum, apart from that Ronald Passion dude not the worst, but funniest

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

That makes sense. I knew you taught English which explained the understanding of technical concepts - I truly am fucking awful at those - I have no idea what a subjunctive is and I have to remember that a "noun is a naming word, verb is a doing word and adjective is a describing word" every time I have to think about what I'm actually using even though I have one of the strongest implementations of the language in written form out of anyone I know. It's all totally instinctual though, I can't actually explain what I'm implementing half the time or how it works; I just have this base sense of whether its right or wrong.

^I'm in the same boat.

And I, though I do know nouns/verbs/adjectives/adverbs like the back of my hand from years of playing Mad Libs But tenses, wow, fucking forget about it haha (present perfect, pluperfect, some other kinds of perfect, maybe an imperfect??)

 

[kaomao]

No offense, but you and the other Italian guy X.E.S. or something have the funniest English in the forum, apart from that Ronald Passion dude not the worst, but funniest

What ya mean with funniest? lol
I ask so I can improve my English lol

 

[Line666]

I'm surprised to hear you have minimal grammar knowledge, because as you said yourself, you really show great control over the language at least in written form. But I do know what you mean, sometimes when students ask me about certain structures or phrases I just have to say "that's just how it is" cause I couldn't for the life of me explain why it's said that way.

I think you get a bit of the kinda "it just is" in any field, I started working as an IT technician at a college recently and people are always trying to get me to explain to them why something has broken with some random piece of software and sometimes I just have to be like "its just crashed, shit happens" whilst they try and reach for some convoluted reason as to why it stopped working. I worry this makes me look bad sometimes but thats just the way it is. Until something happens twice in different circumstances then its not actually a problem - just an exception to the otherwise perfectly sound rule

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

No offense, but you and the other Italian guy X.E.S. or something have the funniest English in the forum, apart from that Ronald Passion dude not the worst, but funniest

I dunno, back when Felix was posting on here (miss that dude, he needs to come back), he had some pretty epic moments (my favorite will always be "behind-forest residents" instead of "backwoods people" )

I've done some reading on bilingualism lately (I'm intrigued by and very much interested in languages in general) and although there isn't a 100% agreed definition by most experts, I consider myself a "true bilingual", learned both languages in a natural way (environment, repetition) at a very young age and therefore I switch freely between both when thinking, dreaming, making personal notes, etc.

I have to say, that's pretty fucking cool! I eventually wanna master a language enough that I can think in it (probably German)

 

[DanLights]

What ya mean with funniest? lol
I ask so I can improve my English lol

Just that sometimes you say things that even though I get it, you say it in such a weird way that it takes me a while to actually get it

I dunno, back when Felix was posting on here (miss that dude, he needs to come back), he had some pretty epic moments (my favorite will always be "behind-forest residents" instead of "backwoods people" )



I have to say, that's pretty fucking cool! I eventually wanna master a language enough that I can think in it (probably German)

Hahaha Felix did make a lot of weird funny statements back in the day

I'm tackling French and German at the same time, although I think I'm gonna focus on mastering French first and then going for the Nazis, man that language is hard but I love it.

 

[LeSedna]

I do not consider myself "bilingual" (only fluent) but I do think in english all day long when I am not in France, because I work in english, play online in english, read here in english...

 

[Plankis]

Also, I should of thought.

Anyone would like to explain why so many do this error? I've seen it often on other forums and have never understood it.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Because most people learn English through speaking not writing, and so when it comes to writing it down that's how it sounds to them.
I see people do it a lot with "were" instead of "we'll", and that's an even more disparate leap.

 

[Plankis]

Makes sense. Native speakers do tend to add that little f-sound to words.

 

[Terminus]

No offense, but you and the other Italian guy X.E.S. or something have the funniest English in the forum, apart from that Ronald Passion dude not the worst, but funniest

Dan, just for that you are suck!

Seriously though I blame bad teaching, texting culture (ur so 2), which I suppose is similar to what l33tspeak (or whatever it's called) did to young people. IME it's mostly pre-teens being impatient to type out whole words, and the fact that they dont want to wait on their Totino's pizza rolls to properly bake in the oven, among other very impatient leanings.

Also I cannot attest to having properly spell-checked and punctuated that post, please correct me if you fin any speeling or poonctuation mistackes.

 

[JeffTD]

I was joking Jeff lol
I know my english sucks so badly
forgot "up" at the end lol "It seems that we, the non-english mother tongues, don't fuck these things up."

Even with 'up' at the end the sentence still sounds so awkwardly foreign that I can't take it seriously.

No offense, but you and the other Italian guy X.E.S. or something have the funniest English in the forum, apart from that Ronald Passion dude not the worst, but funniest

Yeah... in my experience with foreigners speaking English, the Italians tend to be the worst with the Dutch in close second.