mephisto_loh
Green Tea Member
Maybe a dumb question but... what do you mean with clipping the apogees?
do you mean clip the peaks?
Truth behind Waves L2
- Thread starter ahjteam
- Start date
Maybe a dumb question but... what do you mean with clipping the apogees?
do you mean clip the peaks?
ahjteam.. while the session isn't in front of me.. I recall that I used a wide filter to duck out some 150Hz.. then put a general low shelf to drop everything under 100Hz about 1.5 db. Then a little bump somewhere in the upper mids to bring a tad more clarity. Then FG-X as stated previously. Its actually a nice mix, just need to check the low end response in your room.. you obviously know what you are doing but it's possible either your monitors or room might need some tweaking.. Do you have a sub?
Thanks.
Yes, I have sub; I use Genelec 8030A's + a 250W 8" sub that I have behind an aux send on my mixer. The problem is most likely my room (lacks room treatment as I'm not allowed to puncture the walls to hang room treatment) and also the sub placement as when I go one step to the right I hear the subs like almost 10dB louder.
I tried using the Room EQ Wizard to analyze my room response, but it failed to work on my mac.
Great that you used REW!! I have an article coming out that may help you with placement and using REW.. In fact, I might do a public thread where we all collectively improve our room acoustics and speaker placement... Can you put traps on stands?
That graph makes PERFECT sense! You have a big drop starting at 150Hz and going quite down in the sub lows.. which is why you have compensated for this in your mix.
Homework:
Do the following in this order:
- flip phase on sub, measure room.. probably not going to do the trick but worth a try
- put sub on stable chair in mix position.. play a track of basslines and crawl around the room till the bass seems the most constant and strong.. put your sub there.
- measure room response with phase in and out of sub
- try moving satellite speakers away from the wall
- move, measure, repeat.. it took Bob Hodas 8 hours to find proper space for sub and speakers in my A room!
Also, what are the dimensions in your room in ft?
Homework:
Do the following in this order:
- flip phase on sub, measure room.. probably not going to do the trick but worth a try
- put sub on stable chair in mix position.. play a track of basslines and crawl around the room till the bass seems the most constant and strong.. put your sub there.
- measure room response with phase in and out of sub
- try moving satellite speakers away from the wall
- move, measure, repeat.. it took Bob Hodas 8 hours to find proper space for sub and speakers in my A room!
Also, what are the dimensions in your room in ft?
Um... I don't have a measuring tape here but it's ~3.5m x 5m, so that would be something like 10-12ft x 15-16ft. I have the speakers 1 meter away from side walls and the back wall, 1m apart from eachother. the sub is on the left side of the table in the floor (there is a weird 30cm high radiator behind the table so I can't put the sub behind the desk.
wow, talk about going offtopic
AboutBlank
Member
That would be pure gold, I started a thread once but the enthusiasm was kinda muted.
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/equipment/641418-our-room-measuring-data.html
(Can't wait to ditch the VCC beta for the real deal, love that thing)
Pedro Teixeira
Member
You mean putting the sub on a chair in your exact mixing position and crawl around the room with your head down? That does seem to make sense, gonna try that
it sounds goofy, but it actually works. I'd make yourself a bass test tone by dropping a bass guitar to drop D and recording a part from D to high D. Then play that with the sub in mix position and the goal is the find the spot in the room where every note sounds even and strong EDIT: Once you find that space, THAT IS WHERE THE SUB GOES!
mephisto_loh
Green Tea Member
yep, actually a dirty trick to know where to put your sub is: put the sub where you sit exactly put some sample low frecs where you know you have a hole and go around the place. where you listen the best to that frec, place the sub.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Despite what unrealistic lab-tests you do, the L2 has always been crap for any duties that didn't require utter annihilation of transient content. Regardless of what it does to square waves, it has always had the effect of flattening and distorting source content in, many times, really undesirable ways.
It's never been in the same league as FG-X for all-round mastering purposes.
Having said that, I still use Ozone 4.
It's never been in the same league as FG-X for all-round mastering purposes.
Having said that, I still use Ozone 4.
I got all excited about this thread until I heard the OP's initial mix.
You may have the science down, but your initial mix was all over the place. It was unworkable IMO. It pretty much makes your opinion a little less valid if your mixdown sounds like that. Not just the pops and clicks, but the soupy bass.
How can I trust your judgement on the distortion you mentioned when you can't spot obvious stuff like the bass in that mix?
You may have the science down, but your initial mix was all over the place. It was unworkable IMO. It pretty much makes your opinion a little less valid if your mixdown sounds like that. Not just the pops and clicks, but the soupy bass.
How can I trust your judgement on the distortion you mentioned when you can't spot obvious stuff like the bass in that mix?
Scott Horner
Scottimus Maximus
I have to say, I felt the same way. Not trying to be a dick at all, because I'm no pro when it comes to mixing, but I would have felt better about the test and been able to trust the result more if it were using, say, an Ermz mix. His stuff is always well mixed and has nice balance to it. Much more suitable for this kind of test and I feel a proper mix would have yielded more fair results.
I'll quote slate:
Then I tried out the Room EQ Wizard and got this: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1338211/REW.png
guitarguru777
Member
I am not trying to be a dick here so if this comes off in dickish way then I apologize ....
But all these guys doing shoot outs of gear and trying to make bold claims about things when clearly they need work on stuff is starting to cloud the world with a metric ton of BS and garbage. AHJ I love ya bro but you are doing these tests in an untreated room so how can that possibly validate anything you have done.
I say leave it all to the pros, and have the pros duke it out. No need to waste time and money on things being tested in a non-optimal environment.
That being said .... Its not Analog Steve its Digital!! (inside joke..lol)
But all these guys doing shoot outs of gear and trying to make bold claims about things when clearly they need work on stuff is starting to cloud the world with a metric ton of BS and garbage. AHJ I love ya bro but you are doing these tests in an untreated room so how can that possibly validate anything you have done.
I say leave it all to the pros, and have the pros duke it out. No need to waste time and money on things being tested in a non-optimal environment.
That being said .... Its not Analog Steve its Digital!! (inside joke..lol)
SethTheGreat
Member
The OP was only pointing out a clear difference between two pieces of software. This is useful information to someone who knows how to interpret it. The thread needed to go in the direction that it did b/c Ahj did jump to the "FG-X sucks!" conclusion a little bit quickly, but I can't see how it's a bad thing for him to post tests like this. I appreciate it. Thank you Ahj! And thank you for inspiring Slate to talk, once you get him in on a thread it seems to transform into some sort of AE scripture
"Thus saith the Slate"
For real though! I've searched and searched and searched, and I've never seen anyone else mention crawling around until the bass sounds good. That's gold!
The OP in this tread is just analyzing the waveform behaviors of three different dynamic processor plug-ins, that doesn't even require hearing (and who the fuck even wants to listen to 22khz square wave?) as it is purely a visual presentation how the wave gets processed on dynamic changes. Or are you referring to something else in this off-topic ridden thread?
If you are referring to the FG-X vs L2 thing, the thing I learned from Slate is that it isn't as forgiving on low end heavy and/or shitty mixes as L2 and that is why I always found it distorted my kick drums. I admit that my mixes aren't the best in the world or even on the forum, partially because my room is untreated and partially because of my skills, and this is true. I mean, I started studio mixing in 2007 and in 2008 I got in to TAMK University of Applied Sciences (ex-PIRAMK University of Applied Sciences) to study studio mixing. Also if you have listened any of my earlier mixes, my 10 year of FOH-mixing background is starting to calm down quite a bit on my studio mixes and my mixes in the past few years have become significantly less low end heavy. I won't be living in this place for more than maybe 3 months in the spring and 4 more months in the fall as my studies here are almost complete, so I don't see it wise to treat it anymore. I'll just treat the next apartment where I (hopefully) will move on more permanent basis.
Love you too babe.
PS: I didn't say that FG-X sucks, I said that I preferred L2 over it.
