USA vs. Europe: Where the music & fans differ...?

JayKeeley

Be still, O wand'rer!
Apr 26, 2002
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Here is an interesting excerpt from an article taken from the Exit to Eternity band site, although the author is someone who writes for metalreviews.com. Anyway, in light of some of the discussion on the other Tolkki thread, I thought this would make for interesting reading...

Now about the lack of American bands. Most people don’t realize how big this country is. When traveling in Europe, it was amazing to me that a short five hour train ride often leaves you in another country with a different language and culture. There is such homogeny in terms of our national culture. It’s hard to find different influences when 290 million people have the same experience. This is one reason why German metal is different from Italian metal is different from Finnish metal. American music is also more rooted in blues while European music has its roots in classical and folk music. Classical requires a much higher skill level to play well than blues does. Additionally, blues based music is much more repetitive than classical is.

Europe has always been more receptive to fantastic lyrics and fairy tales. If you ask random redneck Joe what he thinks of Manowar, Bal Sagoth or Helloween, you'll hear that they're "gay." Welcome to the American culture of machismo. Men are taught that they have to be men. They can't be pussies and listen to "gay" music. The social stigma of being labeled as unmanly is a tough one to live with in our nation. This stupidity prevents many people from getting into music they'd otherwise love. This is one of the reasons nu metal appeals to people here. The lyrics deal with being manly, masculine and tough. If they could only see that nu metal is marketed to play into the insecurity of not being man enough. Nu metal is simply packaged revolution; all the rage and angst without the fear that you might actually get hurt. The innocuous nature is so insipid that most people can listen to it without even realizing it. It is a corporate perversion of real metal in it's most marketable incarnation.


Thoughts?
 
JayKeeley said:

Europe has always been more receptive to fantastic lyrics and fairy tales. If you ask random redneck Joe what he thinks of Manowar, Bal Sagoth or Helloween, you'll hear that they're "gay." Welcome to the American culture of machismo. Men are taught that they have to be men. They can't be pussies and listen to "gay" music. The social stigma of being labeled as unmanly is a tough one to live with in our nation. This stupidity prevents many people from getting into music they'd otherwise love. This is one of the reasons nu metal appeals to people here. The lyrics deal with being manly, masculine and tough. If they could only see that nu metal is marketed to play into the insecurity of not being man enough. Nu metal is simply packaged revolution; all the rage and angst without the fear that you might actually get hurt. The innocuous nature is so insipid that most people can listen to it without even realizing it. It is a corporate perversion of real metal in it's most marketable incarnation.


Thoughts?

I am not sure about the first part, but this part is very true, IMO... For the same reason Death Metal has a muuuuch larger following in the US than Power/Prog Metal...



Another thing, Imo, is that in the US people are waaaay to worried about being cool. 80's metal is not cool anymore, it's cheesy and your older geek brother would listen to.... Although Power Metal is not exactly 80's hair metal, it still has the high pitched vocals and stuff...
 
chibitotoro said:
I've had enough European metal fans call me a faggot for listening to Rhapsody to know that it goes both ways.
Oh yeah, same here. Nobody has the monopoly on image-conscious posers. :Spin:
 
chibitotoro said:
I've had enough European metal fans call me a faggot for listening to Rhapsody to know that it goes both ways.
Absolutely, but there's a very obvious reason why European power metal bands aren't scrambling to play in the USA. So although the criticism flows both ways, it's certainly not in equal proportion.
 
I have to disagree with the above article--- I think US audiences are way more sophisticated than people give us credit for. I think it is all down to what Clear Channel and MTV rams down our throats. I find it hard to believe that w/ the interest in LOTR and post 9/11, that people would go for more fantasy in their rock and roll. There was a time in the 80s when we thought all the hair stuff was cool. And Helloween being gay? Come on! I am sure that if our favorite music was marketed better over here, it would be a different story. Im sure if Nightwish opened for Evanescence, they would be a hit here. I think prog/power is the only good thing going on in music and if I could buy MTV to show the US these videos, people would have a different take on it. Im sure that in time when 80s stuff is back in, some of the bands that we know and love will benefit from this resurgence..
 
I never have this problem...Im not a guy. Everyone just looks at me funny for listening to the music in the first place. So Im use to being the odd one out. But I perfer European metal over american metal at times. It just depends on who and what we are talking about.

I also agree with the article some what. A good amount of Americans do take image way more seriously than maybe other countries do. This is more a product of years of mass media exposure where image is drilled in our heads to be important. Power metal fans and even some prog fans do have this problem at times. Even some black and death metal fans...ai yi...they get on your case for anything that isnt their style. I even see it with this crowd and pretty much the majority of metal fans. Its not just the nu metal fans, its a habit with a lot of people. Although the prog / power metal group is more forgiving with certain so called "cheesiness" from certain groups, they do still consider "image" an importance. I personally think image shouldnt matter....its the music that you love, not what they look like that counts.
 
why BadGenome ;) It would really be for a good cause 'cuz if Nightwish opened for Evanescence maybe, while listening, the Evanescence singer could finally try and learn how to hit the right notes, especially live!
 
SavaHexe said:
why BadGenome ;) It would really be for a good cause 'cuz if Nightwish opened for Evanescence maybe, while listening, the Evanescence singer could finally try and learn how to hit the right notes, especially live!
The only thing Evanescence should be allowed to open for is my backyard bongo group, and I'd still probably be the best band there!
 
not even for my good!!!! reason *lol* awwwww c'mon ;)

But I agree, I really cannot stand them either, I saw them live at a festival once, geeeez how embarrassing that was (for them!)
 
SavaHexe said:
why BadGenome ;) It would really be for a good cause 'cuz if Nightwish opened for Evanescence maybe, while listening, the Evanescence singer could finally try and learn how to hit the right notes, especially live!
Hahaha, well you do have a point there! :D
 
I found the blues vs. classical/folk argument to be the most compelling. I really can't stand the repetativeness and lack of creativity of blues music... and likewise blues-rock and bluesy metal. If something is described as bluesy, I will most likely hate it. I love folk and world influences in metal though.
 
ProgMetalFan said:
I I really can't stand the repetativeness and lack of creativity of blues music....
I don't know whether this shows a lack of understanding, limited exposure, or just plain ignorance. I try to be as objective (and quiet) as possible in your constant bashing of bands/styles that you do not like, but I cannot sit on the sidelines here.

John Lee Hooker... Muddy Waters...Bessie Smith...T-Bone Walker...Elmore James..the list goes on and on...

Music is about passion, not just complexity.

Blues is a whole way of life, which gives black working-classes in the US the self- esteem/respect, strength of character, an inherent sense of fun, and the will and determination to “keep on goin”; no matter what life (and the white man) threw at them. As an album note writer in the early 60s puts it “For a bluesman a song is a personal expression of a feeling, or a recreation of an event in his past. As his mood shifts or another aspect of an event comes into his mind the song changes, and his effort is put into creating a truth - emotionally if not factually” (Ed Denson. Notes to “The Immortal Charlie Patton Number 1”. L. P. Origins of Jazz. OJL. I c. 1963). Denson goes on to describe how another Delta bluesman, Bukka White” ... told us that a song must be sung like religion is confessed - it must be truly felt if it is to mean anything.” (Ibid.). Author. Eli Marcus, states that “As with Zen, a deep understanding of the Blues requires the student / disciple to travel a path enlightenment...” (“The Blues As Zen”. Eli Marcus. Unknown date / publisher).
 
Harvester said:
Music is about passion, not just complexity.
I agree...

Specifically speaking about blues (and not the whole American/Euro metal debate)...I have always been a big fan of blues.

There was a period of time...essentially it was called the 90s...when I got heavily into blues because if I wanted to hear a real musician wail on a guitar and sing passionate music...that where I had to go to hear it.

Obviously, my digression into blues came about from the whole grunge-induced-collapse-of-metal in the early 90s and continued until the late 90s when I gradually began to realize there was an underground metal scene still rumbling, and I was missing out.

Sadly...there's still lots of great blues going on at there...but I think the blues scene has kind of waned as well...along the lines of the microbrew explosion (coincidence?...I think not...but that's another story)...

The classics that you mentioned, Glenn, are always timeless. Also been huge fans of Jon Butcher, Robert Cray, Keb Mo, and...well...a lot of others that I won't get into now.

Shit...this ain't a blues forum...probably catch shit for venturing here, but at least the music's real...fuck the whole manufactured music scene from Shania to P. Diddy (the artist formally known as Puff?)...

Personally, I just think ol' Progmetalfan is on a bender tonight...spreading dissension and bah-hum-bugger-ness everywhere...hehe.

Rock on!
 
ProgMetalFan said:
sorry Harvester, I hate blues music!
You dont like soul music? :p I dont mind blues, but I dont really listen to a lot of it either. so I cant tell you if I hate it or not. But I like all kinds of music any way, except the random select few that hurt my ears. @_@ What I like to call CRAP! But I guess every music is something to some one. But I agree with what glenn said...its really about passion. Technicality is a lovely addition, but feeling is what amazes me more. Not everyone is a passionate and soulful player. Some technical stuff sometimes sounds too mechanical and lifeless even though they are still fun to listen to.
 
I agree totally with that article... thanx for sharing Jay!!

In part i think it does have to do with complexity AND the "fantasy" aspect. This countries culture has slowly been dumbed down over the past 10 years or so if the music is complex and requires thought...FORGET ABOUT IT, the bulk of the people like to have stuff handed to them with little to no thought.

As far as the marketing or exposure of Metal( all styles) goes,I think alot of it goes back to labels/broadcasters wanting the quick buck and not wanting to take a chance.:hotjump: :hotjump: :hotjump: THE BASTARDS!