Virginia shooting

[Captain Beard]

Mike, just shut the hell up. I've already said that, and your loud chest banging doesn't help the crazy gun nut image you project. If you want to be taken seriously, you can't hoot and holler like a goddamned ape. You're proving the Europeans' points.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

all it would have taken was one student carrying a sidearm.
now all the liberal faggots will be like "omgz, teh gunz, we must bans thems!!!!!11"

wow, you're a fucking moron aren't you, sir?

 

[Dead Winter]

I still stand by my decision that banning the tool used to commit crimes won't stop the crime. it's obvious your opinion is to the far left Dead Winter, and that it can't ba changed, so do us a favor and lets keep it off guns before a war starts again,and focus on solving the act instead of the method.

If I had to put limitations on my views such as "left" or "right", I would say that I'm more middle right than anything.

Of course I understand that the problem isn't guns, it's people. In fact, THAT'S WHAT I SAID. But as I've said before, you can't change people, so you might as well change a part of the system that enables those stupid people to have access to weapons that can maim or kill innocent people.

At my parents' house in Texas, I have a scoped .270, 20 gauge and 12 gauge shotguns, and a .357 magnum. I love shooting, but I'd gladly give up my right to carry a handgun if it meant that violent crime would be significantly reduced in the US. Not ALL WEAPONS, but at least handguns.

Welp, looks like I blew your hypothesis. I own guns AND I'm for handgun restrictions.

"OMG!!! I can think for myself without compartmentalizing my thoughts and ideas into nice little packages, just waiting to be judged by other people!!!!"

Seriously, however, I'm quite surprised that you find me far left simply because of my view on one particular topic. That's a whole different discussion, but that's another reason I refused to be categorized simply because a particular thought or opinion of mine happens to be in line with others who choose to label themselves as "liberal" or "conservative".

I'm for abortion AND the death penalty. I support making the military bigger while simultaneously I support socializing the medical field. I am an anomaly and I will continue to be as long as there are people out there content with being lumped into a category based solely on their views.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

Dude, I hate to break it to you, but the US DOES have more stupid and crazy people than many other parts of the world THAT AREN'T THIRD WORLD NATIONS. It's a problem within our society. We believe that we are owed all this stuff just for being born, that we are somehow special and different from other people, and that comes out in our actions. The problem isn't all guns; it's handguns. You can have a gun almost anywhere in the world...it's a handgun that's illegal. Why am I able to walk down the street in Rome in the middle of the night without even THINKING of having to be careful? The criminals and other people aren't afraid of the police, so that's not it...in fact, the police are quite lenient here. On the other hand, why can't I walk across the tracks in New Orleans without being mugged/killed? People who say every place in the world is like the US and has the same problems obviously have never left the US. Maybe it's safer in the US than in Russia, but that's about the only other democratic nation in the world that's more dangerous than the US, besides Iraq. It's all because of our mentality.

Why is it such a big deal that Don Imus said nappy headed hos on the air? Why are Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on a "crusade" for black people? Are they the emperors of the black community or something? Why do people file lawsuits against others when they simply offended them? Why do we waste tons and tons of money on frivolous lawsuits to appease the black/hispanic/italian/polish/white/whatever community? The way we live in the US is a much more selfish, backstabbing, and crybaby way of life than the rest of the world, and the only reason we still have handguns is because someone's afraid of losing money. No one ever said anything about abolishing shotguns, rifles, etc...just handguns. So the whole, "I don't have any more weapons" theory is out the door. The Second Amendment states "the right to bear arms". It says nowhere about any right to bear handguns. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you own a shotgun you still are exercising your right to bear arms, right? Guns aren't the problem. Handguns are the problem. It's not fucking rocket science.

If you can convince the millions of Americans to stop being complete fucking retards, then maybe handguns wouldn't be a problem anymore. But that's never going to happen, so what's the next best thing? Take away the handguns. Not the guns, just the handguns. At least it's a start.

this man knows the deal.


I think more people need to get out of their small town, pro-america, chest pounding, guns are cool mindset and go visit other countries. ive lived abroad and spent time in almost every single country in europe, and believe me, the usa is FAR more dangerous than other places.

 

[Mike]

my point is, i follow the law, i dont do anything wrong, i dont harm anyone, i practice excellent gun safety, and it drives me crazy when ever i hear anyone "for gun control" we HAVE gun control in this country, do you know how many background checks i've had to go through just to buy 2 fucking guns? The gun laws in New Jersey are STRICT, I cant just legally go buy a gun today, if you want a gun, you gotta wait 6 months.

It just pisses me off that people think its a good idea to take away one of my favorite hobbies just because some dumb faggot went ape shit and killed a few people. Millions of gun owners in the US killed NO ONE yesterday, or today.

 

[Dead Winter]

I would actually like to see a test run ban of handgun sales. Don't take away the handguns that are legally bought already, just ban sales for one year and see if there is a decline in violence due to the ban. Neither the pro or anti handgun fanatics can truly be vindicated unless we have cold, hard facts and proof. If the violence stays the same or even INCREASES, then we know for a fact that handguns are not the problem, hence, ending the age-old debate.

I'm really wary about imposing bans on things that we have rights to, but what about our right to live in relative safety?

 

[Mike]

Of course I understand that the problem isn't guns, it's people. In fact, THAT'S WHAT I SAID. But as I've said before, you can't change people, so you might as well change a part of the system that enables those stupid people to have access to weapons that can maim or kill innocent people.

a handgun is a firearm, not a weapon. The difference: weapons are used to harm anyone or anything. I own firearms, not weapons. And changing the system wont stop people from aquiring "weapons" so your only punishing those who have dont nothing wrong, just so that you can solve nothing.

I love shooting, but I'd gladly give up my right to carry a handgun if it meant that violent crime would be significantly reduced in the US. Not ALL WEAPONS, but at least handguns.

I dont want the right to carry a handgun, i want to keep my right to own one and use it for recreation. And like I said, do you know what is smaller and more consealable than a gun? A knife. you can use anything as a weapon, if someone wanted to go into a school and kill 32 people, they could do it with a hammer, hatchet, knife, brick, desk chair, anything.

 

[Mike]

I would actually like to see a test run ban of handgun sales. Don't take away the handguns that are legally bought already, just ban sales for one year and see if there is a decline in violence due to the ban. Neither the pro or anti handgun fanatics can truly be vindicated unless we have cold, hard facts and proof. If the violence stays the same or even INCREASES, then we know for a fact that handguns are not the problem, hence, ending the age-old debate.

I'm really wary about imposing bans on things that we have rights to, but what about our right to live in relative safety?

again, this wont do anything, do you know how many hand guns are out there in the US right now? its like if we stopped selling TV's... everyone still has one, so how you would stop people from watching tv?

 

[Dead Winter]

my point is, i follow the law, i dont do anything wrong, i dont harm anyone, i practice excellent gun safety, and it drives me crazy when ever i hear anyone "for gun control" we HAVE gun control in this country, do you know how many background checks i've had to go through just to buy 2 fucking guns? The gun laws in New Jersey are STRICT, I cant just legally go buy a gun today, if you want a gun, you gotta wait 6 months.

It just pisses me off that people think its a good idea to take away one of my favorite hobbies just because some dumb faggot went ape shit and killed a few people. Millions of gun owners in the US killed NO ONE yesterday, or today.

Mike, people like you and me aren't the problem, yet we must bear the burden for all the assholes like the shooter. If handguns are banned, then yes, we are being punished for being law abiding, responsible citizens, which I don't like any more than you. But I would rather have my sensibilities offended than more shootings like this.

Again, I don't think the gov't should do anything hasty, which is why I proposed a "test drive" ban of handgun sales. Not bans on guns already legally bought, but just a period of time to benchmark and prove to everyone, both pro and anti, what the real problem is.

If there is a solution to a problem, then it would be criminal not to at least give it a try.

 

[Dead Winter]

again, this wont do anything, do you know how many hand guns are out there in the US right now? its like if we stopped selling TV's... everyone still has one, so how you would stop people from watching tv?

I agree with your perspective, but neither you nor I can say for sure what would happen until it were put into action. We THINK it wouldn't solve the problem, but we must be objective and at least give it a try.

Too many people are part of the problem and not part of the solution. It's like the war in Iraq and the Democrat debate with the Republicans. I despise Bush and all of his cronies, but I have to give it to them; at least they have a plan. The dems are just being a bunch of babies and saying NO NO NO!!!!! to everything without coming up with a solution themselves.

 

[Mike]

and i love how your all for banning just handguns, do you know how much harder it is to hit a target with a handgun than a rifle or shotgun. If someone is going to take a shot at me with a handgun, at least i can see it coming, and chances are he/she is going to miss me. Where as some physchopath 200 yards away in a window with a 5.56 rifle and a scope bigger than the gun itself takes a shot at me, he's gonna hit me, and i never saw it coming.

And the right to bear arms means THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. It doesnt say the right to bear handguns because handguns are "arms" too. come on man, think about that one.

 

[Mike]

i understand, it seems like there is no solution, and all we CAN do is try something. But I mean, take illegal drugs for example..... when was marijuana banned? how long have people been getting it and using it on a daily basis after the ban? Yeah we tried on that one, but it hasnt done anything.

 

[Dead Winter]

I dont want the right to carry a handgun, i want to keep my right to own one and use it for recreation. And like I said, do you know what is smaller and more consealable than a gun? A knife. you can use anything as a weapon, if someone wanted to go into a school and kill 32 people, they could do it with a hammer, hatchet, knife, brick, desk chair, anything.

If a person can go into a classroom and kill 32 people with a knife as easily as with a handgun, then he's Rambo. Have you ever had someone point a handgun at you? Do you know the feeling of dread and utter helplessness when you realize you can do absolutely nothing? I've had people try to shank me before, then my friends and I beat the living fuck out of him. I seriously doubt it would've been the same had he had a gun.

 

[Mike]

If a person can go into a classroom and kill 32 people with a knife as easily as with a handgun, then he's Rambo. Have you ever had someone point a handgun at you? Do you know the feeling of dread and utter helplessness when you realize you can do absolutely nothing? I've had people try to shank me before, then my friends and I beat the living fuck out of him. I seriously doubt it would've been the same had he had a gun.

if done right, someone could walk through a school and kill isolated students with a knife, and after each kill, just put the blade back in their pocket. Sure, you cant walk into a crowded room and take pop shots like with a gun, but it can be done.

also, bushmaster m4 rifle could be broken down into enough pieces to be fit into a backpack, put together in a bathroom, and then you have a more accurate firearm with a longer distance and a larger magazine.

Handguns just make the crime easier, but still... like we both agreed on, its not the firearms, its the people. and a person with this kind of issues can and will find other ways to get the job done without a handgun.

 

[Dead Winter]

and i love how your all for banning just handguns, do you know how much harder it is to hit a target with a handgun than a rifle or shotgun. If someone is going to take a shot at me with a handgun, at least i can see it coming, and chances are he/she is going to miss me. Where as some physchopath 200 yards away in a window with a 5.56 rifle and a scope bigger than the gun itself takes a shot at me, he's gonna hit me, and i never saw it coming.

And the right to bear arms means THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. It doesnt say the right to bear handguns because handguns are "arms" too. come on man, think about that one.

Again, I know how hard it is to hit a target with a handgun...remember, I had one. I, like you, enjoy simple target practice with them. I'm not some commie nut who wants everyone to hold hands and ban everything that can hurt you. I've shot pistols, shotguns, rifles, semi-automatic rifles, and automatic rifles and I know the difference. I'm just thinking logically.

It's a big shit sandwich, yeah. I'm just saying if the US wants to change the direction it's heading, they're going to need to change handgun laws because they're definitely not going to change their stance on not offending anyone. The day the president tells Jesse Jackson to shut the fuck up and color is the day that I will rescind my proposition on controlling violence. They won't do anything about the ROOT of the violence, which is mostly the social and economic differences between minorities. Since they won't do anything about that, the only thing left to do is control the use of handguns.

I wouldn't say I'm FOR handgun control...I'm not FOR anything which restricts a constitutional right. I'm just saying that it looks like we're out of options, and if you want things to change, that's about it. We can pass around rhetoric all day about how people are the ones killing people, and it's true; but at the end of the day, the US doesn't want to offend a certain race/class/ethnic group because of votes. We're dealing with a flawed system so we must take somewhat drastic measures. I mean, it doesn't affect me in the least because I'm a million miles away. It's not something I feel a burning passion for. I'm just giving my opinion and a possible solution.

You want to clean up the US without banning handguns? Arrest 90% of the poor population to include many different minorities. Sounds harsh, but it's the truth.

Multiculturalism is a good thing...to a point.

 

[Dead Winter]

if done right, someone could walk through a school and kill isolated students with a knife, and after each kill, just put the blade back in their pocket. Sure, you cant walk into a crowded room and take pop shots like with a gun, but it can be done.

also, bushmaster m4 rifle could be broken down into enough pieces to be fit into a backpack, put together in a bathroom, and then you have a more accurate firearm with a longer distance and a larger magazine.

Handguns just make the crime easier, but still... like we both agreed on, its not the firearms, its the people. and a person with this kind of issues can and will find other ways to get the job done without a handgun.

Yup, and now we're getting back to my first post in which I said that the problem isn't weapons...it's our social and cultural values.

Let's face it. We Americans like to hurt people, things, objects, etc. If we don't do it, we like to see other people do it. That's our culture. We're full of bravado and piss and vinegar. We're a bunch of badasses.

Many other cultures have different views and values, and they don't respond to violence in the same way we do. It's not something that's an everyday part of life for them. So when they see something like this happen in their own country, they are TRULY horrified and shocked. For us, it's just nice to blow off steam on a message board, but for those people, it really comes as a shock to them. That's their culture. Sometimes they're pussies, yeah, but looking past that you see that their quality of life is much higher than that of ours. It's different strokes for different folks.

I'll give you an example. A few years ago, there was a car bomb in Fallujah that exploded outside an Italian Carabinieri (military police) base, killing 6 or 7. You would've thought that someone just nuked Rome or something when the news got back to Italy. The entire country held vigils for the 6 or 7 dead for weeks. Ok, it's a tragedy, sure...but I remember days in Iraq when 6 or 7 Americans died two to three times a day. We're desensitized to the violence and it doesn't affect us the way it affects others because we are a violent society.

Change the sensibilities and values of the American society and violent crime will steeply decline.

 

[Lunar Still]

There's no question we have a problem and this is pretty seriously fucked up. I think that the whole "ban guns" answer is just too simplistic, though. It's like trying to find a pill we can take to be more responsible; it's usually harder than that. It's more likely that as a nation we need to start taking responsibility for ourselves, our children, our pets, and our relative happiness or unhappiness. I just can't figure out how to legislate that without it getting shot down by people who LIKE being able to sue a major corporation for their own IQ deficiency.

 

[Anvil]

I don't understand why people are so infatuated with handguns? They're completely useless in any situation besides use in law enforcement.

Like I said before, ban handguns, and allow the purchase of only hunting weapons with a hunting permit.

Now can anyone intelligent give me a reason to why handguns are so widely accepted and used? Like Dead_Winter said, "Have you ever had someone point a handgun at you? Do you know the feeling of dread and utter helplessness when you realize you can do absolutely nothing?"

Its people with unsafe care of handguns that should scare you, people who carry a concealed weapon. I'm not trying to take away YOUR right to own a gun, but the right of ANYONE to own a gun. Would you not be willing to give up your right to own a hand gun only to keep them off the streets from irresponsible children and crazies?

I own a .22, and a 12 gauge. They're locked up, and I have a hunting license, as well as a gun permit in order to use them. I use them for hunting, and that only. If someone were to intrude on my property, I'm sure I'd grab a blunt object first. The point is, why a hand gun? What is so great about them? Can anyone give me a reason of owning them other than to shoot another human being? They're completely useless otherwise in my eyes.

 

[Mike]

The point is, why a hand gun? What is so great about them? Can anyone give me a reason of owning them other than to shoot another human being? They're completely useless otherwise in my eyes.

I'd never use my handgun to harm or scare anyone unless it was someone putting me and or my family in danger.

What the point of owning a guitar? whats so good about playing a sport?whats the point of having an xbox? why buy a bmw when you could just buy a colbalt? whats so great about television? why does anyone post on this board? All of it is useless, but they are all enjoyed by people. I like my handgun, i like to take it to the outdoor range and shoot golf balls on the hills. It's fun, i enjoy it, millions of other people enjoy target shooting, competitions, and collecting guns. I never had the intention of using my gun against anyone... its just a very expensive hobby of mine.

you call handguns useless, i call art galleries useless. just different strokes i guess.

 

[JBroll]

I love how, instead of actually responding to posts (like mine) that explain quite well how the whole banning gun thing won't work, people keep parading down saying 'Ban pistols! Nyah!' as if nothing sensible had ever been said for the other side.

Again, fuckers, you'll only stop people who follow laws from getting guns - you won't get handguns away. That means people won't be able to defend themselves or others, and the fucks who do things like this will have no more problems than they would have before. For fuck's sake, Virginia Tech, as does just about every other big university, has its own goddamn police force and a campus-wide ban on firearms - how the fuck do you ban things more than that? The problems are in the implementation of what we already have - yes, it is illegal for loonies and felons to get guns, whoever said that, we're not that stupid - and the fact that we just have fucked up people here, not that we have guns available. Anvil, if you can seriously come down here and tell me there's no point in having a gun because you feel that fucking safe when four dozen people a day are killed by someone else, you either have the mind of a two-year-old or the balls of a grizzly bear on crystal meth.

Bans on guns have already been tried in Europe - read the other goddamn post and tell me Germany's murder rates didn't jump - and there's no indication that they'll work better here. Simple estimate based quite simply on the last few years' numbers - there are likely about 300 million legal guns in this country, and our murder rates hover around fifteen thousand a year. Do the math - it sounds to me like those numbers are telling me that only one in twenty thousand guns is used every year in a murder, and that's before we factor in the huge number of guns that aren't legal, the murders done without guns, et cetera. Does that indict guns? No, it quite clearly says that guns are a tool and not the crime themselves. Anvil, fairer surveys point to handguns being used two hundred thousand times a year for personal defense - real fucking useless, isn't it? You're not helping the victims of crimes with firearm bans.

It's still a vain attempt at putting the blame on something easy like guns instead of saying 'well, he was fucked in the head a few times over, let's find a REAL solution to our problems' like someone without a superiority complex or an inability to think outside a party line.

Jeff