What are you doing right nao?
- Thread starter w0es
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Aexalven
Big Paws
W
Belac
Flesh To Steel
PowerBlade
Member
Aexalven
Big Paws
(The bass player)
Total Satan
You must ask yourself the question what happens once they have done their time and are released back into society? If we treat them like animals and keep instilling to them that they are criminals they will just continue being criminals and continue to commit crimes. If we however try the opposite and treat them like people and show them that they are capable to live a normal life then chances are very good that they will live a fairly normal life after being released from prison and contribute to society instead of living off society.
Belac
Flesh To Steel
There is your answer.
Still... I have some doubts
Prison quality is fairly controversial and I don't think there has been enough time to evaluate how effective a nice prison is in rehabilitating violent people. What you say makes sense to me, but I am kind of skeptical of that same system working in the more violent and larger US prison system. I don't think they should be treated like shit because you're right, that doesn't help people grow but violent criminals in the US are more plentiful, and in cases where they are gang affiliated they are pretty much at war before they even enter the prison. I guess it depends on the area and class of prison.
In this case the US real problem is that they have an economy and social structure that is fucked up and breeds these kinds of people to begin with. Fix that and maybe nice prisons could work.
Still... I have some doubts
Prison quality is fairly controversial and I don't think there has been enough time to evaluate how effective a nice prison is in rehabilitating violent people. What you say makes sense to me, but I am kind of skeptical of that same system working in the more violent and larger US prison system. I don't think they should be treated like shit because you're right, that doesn't help people grow but violent criminals in the US are more plentiful, and in cases where they are gang affiliated they are pretty much at war before they even enter the prison. I guess it depends on the area and class of prison.
In this case the US real problem is that they have an economy and social structure that is fucked up and breeds these kinds of people to begin with. Fix that and maybe nice prisons could work.
(The bass player)
Total Satan
Good point! Alot of different factors play into this. First of all our prisons are not overly crowded, every inmate has their own cell and that means 12 hours every night when they are all alone. This helps plenty in making them both calm and less stressed out and aggressive because they get 12 hours safe and alone from the rest of the inmates so they can relax and sleep. Secondly there are NO GUNS in Swedish prisons, not even the police are allowed to bring ing guns into the prison. This also keeps aggression down because I am in no way a threat to them, I do not even carry a stick or mace or handcuffs when working amongst the inmates. So no weapons = much more relaxed environment. All guards carry personal alarms if anyhting should happen (it seldom does). This may sound weird and not secure but in fact it is much more secure, we have had one (1) prison guard killed in service in the last 50 years. I have no clue about the statistics for inmates killing each other but it has happened only once sthat I know of since I started working in 2011. There are suicides but those are almost impossible to stop, they are usually around 10 of those in a year. And this is not in my prison I am talking about this is in all of Sweden.
We also work amongst the inmates all day so they have almost no time alone to come up with dumb shit hehe.
isolation_years
Member
prisons are for rehabilitation. whether they do or not is debatable. losing any freedom and the time you spend there (and the time you may lose out on once out) is the price you really pay (i suppose plus you have to spend time with other prisoners, which im sure is a mixed bag ahaha).
prisons in sweden sound like they are meant for that purpose, many prisons in the US are privately owned and profit based haha. pretty sad.
saw a fair amount of this in some vice documentaries (which are all quite interesting ^_^)
prisons in sweden sound like they are meant for that purpose, many prisons in the US are privately owned and profit based haha. pretty sad.
saw a fair amount of this in some vice documentaries (which are all quite interesting ^_^)
(The bass player)
Total Satan
Exactly, Locking a person up with nothing but other criminals isn't in any way ideal when it comes to rehabilitating a person into not being a criminal. There is however no realistic alternative to prisons in their current state because it is not only rehabilitation but also the matter of enforcing the sentence and those two more often than not are very detrimental to one another making work at a prison that much harder to begin with.
Another thing on the security mattet which I forgot when answering Belac is that Sweden do not have as severe punishments as for example the US does. For instance we have no death pentalty and our maximum penalty is lifetime in prison which always can be changed to a set time after a couple of years if the inmate shows signs of progression. If prisons are to rehabilitate these people then good behaviour must always be rewarded to show that it pays off to be a normal person and not a criminal. This is a big reason why our prisons are also very safe because inmates can gain nothing by doing bad stuff but they can always gain by doing good. If a person is sentenced to death penalty or 150+ years in prison what stops them from say killing other inmates or guards? it is not like they can lose anything more by doing it.
PowerBlade
Member
To add to that (not that I'm an expert in any way), in Danish prisons the maximum sentence is 16 years which almost never happens - however in some really rare cases, they'll get actual lifetime but there are only about 20 people in Denmark who have that sentence. And that's only if they did some truly fucked up stuff, like one of them killed his mother and then some years later he used an angle grinder and an axe to kill his wife and her two sons and then dismembered their bodies. So it's pretty rare!
But I know a guy who has been in and out of prison like 15 times - though he's not done anything since 2000 or so - and he tells me that prisons in Denmark really aren't that cozy as pictures might suggest. Some parts of prisons still have gangs that are in charge of things so it really isn't like what some media might portray it as.
(The bass player)
Total Satan
In Sweden lifetime in prison is just that, lifetime in prison and there are people every year that are sentenced to that. If they show progress it can be turned into a time determined sentence in court but they have to serve a minum of ten years before that an happen and I have never heard of someone who got it time determined on the first attempt. Also there are cases were they simply do not get it time determined and live their entire life in prison since they are deemed to dangerous to be released into society.
Aexalven
Big Paws
But I agree completely, treat them like normal human beings AFTER they are done with penalty. Hell, even help them find a job. But I personally can't stand the fact, that prisoners are sometimes living better than "healthy" members of society and we are paying taxes for them. Im not necessarily saying, that harass prisoner verbaly, torture him or beat the living shit out of him (unless they are murderers, rapists or other scums that dont deserve to live anyway, torture these guys for all eternity, pay taxes for them but broadcast on TV / internet the things that are done to him to spread the message, worked very well in the past would also work now.)
I dont think its solely US problem. I believe most of the "civilised" countries have this issue. But tommorrow I will find in my university library some books about the penalty system in sweden or norway, i'm really curious how their system works in resocialisation of the prisoners.
And this is a good thing in my opinion, I might not agree with treating every prisoner good, but giving them personal space to at least bring down their agression is perfect solution.
In Poland the max penalty is lifetime. usually when you are sentenced you can leave the prison for good behaviour after serving half of the penalty, after 15 years if you are serving 25 years in prison or after 25 years if you are serving lifetime (unless judge decided otherwise during the trial). So there is always a hope for a prisoner, if hes willing to rehabilitate then he will be rewarded.
However, before 1989 there was a death penalty in poland, after communism ended the max penalty became 25 years in prison so all death penalties were converted to 25 years. Then in 1995 the max penalty became lifetime, but those fucks sentenced to die still had to serve 25 years because lex retro non agit rule. Some of them left the prison already and try to live normal lives. But some of them as soon as they left prison they killed or raped again. Its flawed and its bullshit. Even though everybody knew they would kill again there was no legal method to keep them in prison, so Norway (and maybe other countries as well) have a good system. Breivik might have been sentenced for 21 years in prison but I doubt he will leave it after that period.
vitorias123
Faceless
I have no idea how system works in Serbia since idk much people who have been in prison. My friend's father was cause he was messing with taxes, but
for a few months only, and he said nowadays he wont even cross the street if the light isnt green and there are no cars on the road. And he was in the prison thats not really scary, and prisoners dont have much free time, and they have daily activities like working on fields (since that area has a well developed agriculture).
But from what i just googled, serbian prisons are the most crowded in Europe, in one cell there are about 30 people and they have no privacy at all.
There is a documentary about a prison for mentally insane people (mostly people with shizophrenia, paranoid thoughts and stuff like that who killed others on some really fucked up ways) and that documentary gives me creeps and i couldnt watch it till the end.
for a few months only, and he said nowadays he wont even cross the street if the light isnt green and there are no cars on the road. And he was in the prison thats not really scary, and prisoners dont have much free time, and they have daily activities like working on fields (since that area has a well developed agriculture).
But from what i just googled, serbian prisons are the most crowded in Europe, in one cell there are about 30 people and they have no privacy at all.
There is a documentary about a prison for mentally insane people (mostly people with shizophrenia, paranoid thoughts and stuff like that who killed others on some really fucked up ways) and that documentary gives me creeps and i couldnt watch it till the end.
(The bass player)
Total Satan
An inmate once told me had had been in prison for a couple of months in serbia...the leader of the gang in his cell forced him to sit down in a corner and face inwards into a corner of the cell for the entire first week and said he would kill him if he refused,,,
PowerBlade
Member
Yep, that's the kind of prison we should have in Scandinavia, right Aexalven?
Belac
Flesh To Steel
I want to know where all these prisons that hold giant tournaments for your freedom are? The movies promised me bare knuckle fights to the death with millionaires betting on prisoners.
Aexalven
Big Paws
Yep, that's the kind of prison we should have in Scandinavia, right Aexalven?
Looks like dude wanted to stay criminal, but instead being punished for it in Serbia like he should he went to Sweden to be rewarded.
(The bass player)
Total Satan
No criminal expects to be caught. And you can instead view this guy as an example that the punishment thing doesn't work. They should not be allowed to continue behaving like criminals while in prison, a crime is still a crime even if it takes place inside a prison and the justice system cannot allow crimes I hope even you can see the logic in that.
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