What do fans of Swano think about the War in Iraq?
I am just curious, since it's a problem circulating around the world. C'mon, reply!
I am just curious, since it's a problem circulating around the world. C'mon, reply!
What do fans of Swano (and maybe Swano) think about the War in Iraq?
- Thread starter Timmeth
- Start date
mattcira
The Eighth Enocian Key
hey Timmeth -- sorry I missed your message before... I was pre-occupied. Was it important?
and to answer yur question... turn it to glass.
and to answer yur question... turn it to glass.
Ormir
Senior Member
Iraq poses no threat to America, and UN inspectors weren't able to find any nuclear or biological weapons. Attacking Iraq will worsen the situation in the Middle East, and will only increase terrorism. Iraq also hasn't been connected to Al Qaeda in any way, unlike the Iranian government. Iran of course doesn't have the oil of Iraq, and he has no political incenetive to do so. All it boils down to is Bush wanting to boost his popularity and finnish daddys job. Which isn't a particularly good reason for killing people.
Gurgelguff
Rock tonajt
I think it has more to do with securing oil than hunting down terrorists. Iraq´s regime sucks that´s for sure and i don´t mind Saddam H being wiped out from the earth but i prefer him being
removed without war. If it comes to war, and i think it will, Saddams regime will collapse lika a rotten toilet. USA won´t go to war unless they know they gonna win and look good in the TV back home.
removed without war. If it comes to war, and i think it will, Saddams regime will collapse lika a rotten toilet. USA won´t go to war unless they know they gonna win and look good in the TV back home.
Crimson Death
El Basilisco
This is popularity war basiclly and control war, Bush wants to keep the oil and keep the popularity after Sep 11th. So he prepares us with promos and such...
Basiclly Israel is stuck in the middle and we are already fighting one war.
Basiclly Israel is stuck in the middle and we are already fighting one war.
Jim LotFP
The Keeper of Metal
The UN is a total farce and the US really just needs to remove its presence from our shores. The whole 'world government' idea is just a bad one (I feel the same about a 'European Union' and the far too powerful US government).
From what I gather about Iraq situation, and correct me if I'm wrong, but part of the latest UN resolutions (*sigh*) is that not only is Iraq supposed to give the weapons inspectors unhindered access (and I understand they are not going into Presidential palaces or religious locations? If they DO find something, and I don't believe they even want to, I bet they'd be shot anyway before they could tell anyone), but Iraq was supposed to declare what they have. In their weapons declaration some weeks back, I understand they didn't even account for the weapons we knew they had when inspectors were last in the country in... 1998, was it? Iraq seems
If Iraq DOES have a weapons program, it's my opinion that the US would definitely be a target, and it's proven that a small number of operatives can cause LARGE amounts of devastation, and the last group didn't even have any weapons.
What the US needs to do is just figure out what it wants to do. Go in and take down the regime, or not. Total victory, or no war at all. Make some hard decisions, and half-ass nothing, and then go and friggin do it. If the powers-that-be really think Iraq is indeed a threat, then we should take out Saddam, NOW, and stop playing games.
Iraq's the least of the US' problems though.
North Korea (which would likely lead to... China... now THAT'S some heavy shit and I really think it's something that will have to be dealt with in our lifetimes, if not soon)
Saudi Arabia (when a newspaper runs columns detailing how Jews drink human blood for their religious celebrations... something is very wrong there and I haven't figured out how we're allies because if the US is going to decide Israel is to be protected, then we again have to decide if we mean it or if we're trying to be friends with everyone when that just isn't possible)...
So then. Comments? Inaccuracies?
J.
Old Fart
First of all, there is no war in Iraq. Not at the moment, anyway.
I live in the US, and let me tell you, many people (myself included) do not support a war with Iraq. Bush just wants oil, it's as simple as that. He needs something to stimulate the economy, and Iraq was a perfect target.
I agree with Jim that if UN weapons inspectors did find weapons, they would be shot on site, so they couldn't tell anyone. However, the weapons inspectors did find some warheads that Iraq did not declare, so we'll see where this leads.
I also agree with Jim that the US just needs to do something. Quit playing all these fucking political games and just do something.
IMO, North Korea poses a much larger threat than Iraq. If Iraq were to attack, we could wipe 'em out in a heartbeat. North Korea is much more dangerous, especially when China is their strongest ally.
Mammon
Indifferent
This whole war against terrorism is so ridiculous.
No country poses a threat to the US, even though North Korea has the 4th largest army in the world. Why the HELL should anyone attack another country with mass-destruction weapons in these times? That would surely mean the death of the aggressor, the whole friggin' world would turn against that country.
To proceed with a coup d'état in Iraq may lead to another 'villain', perhaps like the case of Iran. Right after US got rid of the legally elected (more than we can say about Bush) president here in the 60'ies (?), there occured an islamistic revolution, leading Khomeini to the power. Additionally, a war in Iraq would strenghten the hatred that some the arabic world have towards the US.
The world's most dangerous man is without doubt George W. Bush.
My opinion is right.. if you disagree- you're wrong.
No country poses a threat to the US, even though North Korea has the 4th largest army in the world. Why the HELL should anyone attack another country with mass-destruction weapons in these times? That would surely mean the death of the aggressor, the whole friggin' world would turn against that country.
To proceed with a coup d'état in Iraq may lead to another 'villain', perhaps like the case of Iran. Right after US got rid of the legally elected (more than we can say about Bush) president here in the 60'ies (?), there occured an islamistic revolution, leading Khomeini to the power. Additionally, a war in Iraq would strenghten the hatred that some the arabic world have towards the US.
The world's most dangerous man is without doubt George W. Bush.
My opinion is right.. if you disagree- you're wrong.
mattcira
The Eighth Enocian Key
Personally, I think the US should take over the world and give me either the city of Toronto, Canada or the city of Bugapest, Hungary. I hear there are some absolutely amazing women there... Toronto won some sports contest.. they asked all these professional athletes what city was their favorite to visit and they all said Toronto, for the women...
And for the record, GW Bush is not the world's most dangerous man. THe world's most dangerous man is certainly THIS GUY!!!
And for the record, GW Bush is not the world's most dangerous man. THe world's most dangerous man is certainly THIS GUY!!!
fireangel
Member
It is so mad, that they are discussing, yeah, announcing a war to come, and the potential enemy knows everything already - *shakes head* I mean, due to communication, everybody seems to know everything. Even the aid-organizations have already calculated, how many deaths, refugees, injured persons there will be, and at which places. So they prepare their infrastructure for it all and everybody waits, if the US uses the chance of "optimate climate periods" (so weird!!) for their war.
I wish we could just switch forward, and imagine four months later. Then the potential refugees could leave the country, the criminals can flee, and we would avoid infrastructure and houses being destroyed and later needed to rebuilt; we would avoid so many dead people and all the misery that comes with it. And only because of aid-organizations, it is less bad as it REALLY is, because their help makes a war more bearable for the western world on TV. Actually, the consequences of a war are even harder. My grandma was refugee in 2nd world war, and she still talks about that and never came over it. And this is more than fifty years ago. So you can try to imagine, how all the refugees in the world feel. I don`t mean by this, that every war is wrong, (don`t misinterprete me!!), I only want to explain that there are no "clean" wars, and it is never over when the actual war ended.
One of the problems is driven by the media. If you don`t go out and announce something everyday, there is the fear of not being noticed. And so President Bush and some other people go in front of cameras and announce something everyday, even if there is nothing to say. This way all involved parties manouevred themselves into a place, where there is no way out without losing credibility. Instead, they should have refused being a plaything for media, shut up more often and have negotiations in the backyard.
Of course Iraq is not a nice democratic state and probably they have the assumed weapons. You still have to be careful, but this is also true for many other states, so I don`t see why this country should be more dangerous to the world than others. Nobody can tell me they do it only for democracy and because Saddam Hussein would be such an unpolite person. What about other places in the world? Ever heard of Sudan, Nigeria, Congo, Nepal? In Nepal there is a cruel civil war going on, and there is no Mr. Bush to await, who comes and saves democracy. So I don`t believe this is the reason. Of course Oil is one of the main reasons. Everybody ever thought of, instead colonizing oil-producing states, to reduce depency from oil? What about saving energy? There is loads of potential in the western world for doing so, and very especially in the US of A. To have oil forever, and in a neverending flow, is not a natural state of being or sthm, you know. So far, it was only luck.
And surely nobody ever asks, who sold all the weapons to them! We did!! They did not materialize miraculously in Iraq. The USA and Europe are on place nr. one and two on the list of weapon-sellers in the world. I am sure they were not sold only to democratic states. What I hate especially, that nobody seems to really consider everything that could happen when a big war starts. It seems, the US thinks there are only one-way-roads. Wrong. It is a network of things and happenings all connected to each other. You can`t foresay what else will happen in the Arab world and Israel, or how Russia will act in the long run. There are loads of unknown factors. We can see this very good in Afghanistan at the moment. War is "over" and now they are not in the media everyday. The problems are still there, and slowly but noticeable, the warlords take over the territorium again, as the presidentship of Mr. Karzai is not as stable as wished. This follow-up after wars takes a lot of money, knowledge and time, but it seems, interesting in caring for that reduces heavily, as there are new wars to come. The things are not as easy as they seem to a lot of people.
I wish we could just switch forward, and imagine four months later. Then the potential refugees could leave the country, the criminals can flee, and we would avoid infrastructure and houses being destroyed and later needed to rebuilt; we would avoid so many dead people and all the misery that comes with it. And only because of aid-organizations, it is less bad as it REALLY is, because their help makes a war more bearable for the western world on TV. Actually, the consequences of a war are even harder. My grandma was refugee in 2nd world war, and she still talks about that and never came over it. And this is more than fifty years ago. So you can try to imagine, how all the refugees in the world feel. I don`t mean by this, that every war is wrong, (don`t misinterprete me!!), I only want to explain that there are no "clean" wars, and it is never over when the actual war ended.
One of the problems is driven by the media. If you don`t go out and announce something everyday, there is the fear of not being noticed. And so President Bush and some other people go in front of cameras and announce something everyday, even if there is nothing to say. This way all involved parties manouevred themselves into a place, where there is no way out without losing credibility. Instead, they should have refused being a plaything for media, shut up more often and have negotiations in the backyard.
Of course Iraq is not a nice democratic state and probably they have the assumed weapons. You still have to be careful, but this is also true for many other states, so I don`t see why this country should be more dangerous to the world than others. Nobody can tell me they do it only for democracy and because Saddam Hussein would be such an unpolite person. What about other places in the world? Ever heard of Sudan, Nigeria, Congo, Nepal? In Nepal there is a cruel civil war going on, and there is no Mr. Bush to await, who comes and saves democracy. So I don`t believe this is the reason. Of course Oil is one of the main reasons. Everybody ever thought of, instead colonizing oil-producing states, to reduce depency from oil? What about saving energy? There is loads of potential in the western world for doing so, and very especially in the US of A. To have oil forever, and in a neverending flow, is not a natural state of being or sthm, you know. So far, it was only luck.
And surely nobody ever asks, who sold all the weapons to them! We did!! They did not materialize miraculously in Iraq. The USA and Europe are on place nr. one and two on the list of weapon-sellers in the world. I am sure they were not sold only to democratic states. What I hate especially, that nobody seems to really consider everything that could happen when a big war starts. It seems, the US thinks there are only one-way-roads. Wrong. It is a network of things and happenings all connected to each other. You can`t foresay what else will happen in the Arab world and Israel, or how Russia will act in the long run. There are loads of unknown factors. We can see this very good in Afghanistan at the moment. War is "over" and now they are not in the media everyday. The problems are still there, and slowly but noticeable, the warlords take over the territorium again, as the presidentship of Mr. Karzai is not as stable as wished. This follow-up after wars takes a lot of money, knowledge and time, but it seems, interesting in caring for that reduces heavily, as there are new wars to come. The things are not as easy as they seem to a lot of people.
Uhhh. I live in Toronto and can tell you that the women here are good but not great. It's a trendy (or TRYING to be trendy) city, with trendy people. Keep your sights on Europe. That's where it's at.
J.
Old Fart
mattcira
The Eighth Enocian Key
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind... Sweden in May, so we'll see.... i was told by a pilot friend of mine that Americans get laid like rugs in Sweden, so I have my fingers crossed! I have been to Toronto, but I didn't have time to scope out the scenes... went to training for work, got back on the plane and went home... best city in America for women (from my own personal experience) is Austin Texas. I'd like to go back, but it is too damn hot down there.
Syndrome
Savage Messiah
I think all this war and terrorism stuff is stupid.
The middle-east is just problems problems problems.
The middle-east is just problems problems problems.
Kajor
seriously brain-damaged
Dreamlord, it's kind of hard to get things done around here when Congress can't progess. Just my view on things...
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