What do fans of Swano (and maybe Swano) think about the War in Iraq?

[fireangel]

1) Saddam has commited genocide.

2) The U.S. was involved with two giant wars (no genocide there...)

The US threw an atom-bomb during WW 2, I think that counts same way.

Aswell Saddam was a very good friend of the USA during the Iran-Iraq- war, where he was suppported and received a lot of weapons from the US. But as I said previously, aswell USA, Europe and also some Middle-East-states and Russia have sold their weapons to a lot of instable countries with dubious leaders, so concerning proliferation, no political/economical leadership is innocent.


But these both are not even my main points, as we could probably go on and compare lists of what someone has done. The problem is what you do after Saddam is dead (I just remember that Bin Laden was supposed to be enemy nr. 1 and now he is hardly mentioned anymore..) Who should govern Iraq then? There are several ethnic and religious groups who like to be considered, and I suppose until they agree on a new government, it could take several months, if ever. And then we´ll see how accepted this government will be, just look at Afghanistan to have a comparable situation. The Warlords are ruling there again, and the US doesn´t care so much anymore....

It could also happen that the Kurds like to have an own state, which of course Turkey doesn´t like and they might fight against these people again. So I want to see when US military invades the Nato-member Turkey because they commit genocide?

When you define genocide as murdering unwanted ethnic/religious minorities, I like to state that these happens in MANY countries on earth, including diverse african countries, Russia, Georgia, Azerbaidjan, Israel, China (Tibet anyone?) Morocco and other Arab/Middle-east states aswell. (=> You might see that I don´t include Morocco to Africa, because geographically and culturally, this country and its neighbours belong to another cultural area).


To finish, I like to quote my mom, who also was a refugee: If these people who support war as a solution now, would be forced to experience it for real, (she doesn´t mean necessarily fight, only being physically there) they would puke their brains out and have nightmares for the rest of their lives (=> you guys ask the fellows who´ve been to Vietnam or Gulf-War before) Experiencing war, seeing all the misery, dead and injured people makes you physically sick. There is hardly anything to imagine which is more cruel and disgusting.

Again I like to add, that there are wars which can be "right", but this is very seldom and I don´t think this one is, as "having weapons and killing the own inhabitants" happens so often but only in Iraq the US notices it. Some of you should try to get more information about the world and not only following what the media "informs" you.


Think about this: we all ( or I hope most of us) wished to have found a peaceful solution before, and now some of you think there is no other possibility than to start this war. So if even we on the boards start flaming and becoming extremely aggressive and can´t join in a solution, then how should we expect political leaders to behave better than us?



Peace.

 

[manuelgv]

seems there's no winning here
you are all right
"go soldiers,shoot at sight,kill kill kill"

 

[Kevin Kitchel]

Here are some articles for those who want to educate themselves. Since the more hawkish people out there don't tend to educate themselves, I guess you won't be reading these.

http://www.guerrillanews.com/war_on_terrorism/doc1186.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58343-2003Feb24.html

 

[Wraith]

The only reason the USA began the war is oil. And also they want to show the whole world how strong they are. No doubt, they'll find nuclear or biological weapon but nobody will be able to prove if it's really Iraq's weapon or not.

 

[batmura]

Once again, Daniel Gildenlow from Pain of Salvation makes an excellent point about the war on Iraq.

Hi all, Daniel Gildenlow here. Usually I don't intervene too much in messageboards or guestbooks, but I just have to make a stand here. I just saw Bush's speech for the US nation and the world (seems like those notions are becoming increasingly one and the same nowadays) and it made me want to throw up in a mixed feeling of disgust, fear, anger and grief. This is indeed a dark day for democracy and globalism, when the largest weapon possessing nation of the world can do whatever they think necessary against other nations in "self-defence". USA has provided Iraq with most of their weapons (including the now illegal types - how any kind of weapon can be legal is beyond my intellect) and for 12 years they have had those weapons without imposing a danger to the rest of the world, more than any other armored land. I want to make clear that I in no way support the Saddam regim or terrorism, but if we are all free to interpret attack as self-defence and can consider us free to judge another religion, race or state and its level of dangerousness, we are treading on forbidden ground, walking down a path of destruction. Asking another country for its full disarmoring, neglect the world opinion and UN, blackmailing another nation with a request to leave out its leader, putting people in cages in Cuba without a trial, and now threatening to put demonstrants in jail - is this the democracy we have worked so hard to achieve? Saddam would never be allowed to do the above - and with all right! But howcome Buch is? I wish I could sit down with Bush and teach him a few lessons about the world, about himself. I would tell him that he does not have the right to do this, no one has the right to do this - that is the foundation of democracy. I would remind him of the fact that he represents a nation that has had one solution to all political problems in the world - hand out loads of weapons and military education to a third party. This is how Saddam got his weapons, and Bin Laden. Now, USA hands out weapons to Pakistan and India, two nations that haven't always been close friends so to speak. When we have all forgotten about Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, will it be the turn of these nations? And then, to whom will USA hand out weapons that time? What leader will them remove, what new leader will they put there in his place? And what reasons will they have to justify the fact that they have killed millions and millions of people in just a few decades, replaced democraticly chosen leaders with dictators, pushed peoples and religions around like toys, and at the same time burped out empty and shallow ringing expressions like "freedom" "democracy" "god bless" and "peaceloving" - what a sackful! Does Saddam have weapons of mass destructions? Maybe, let's keep in mind that the weapon inspectors still have found basically nothing, and that Iraq has increasingly cooperated. But even if they do have them, we can rest assured with one thing, USA do have weapons of mass destruction, and they are the only ones in the history of mankind to have used them. Against two civilian cities! And now Bush speaks about not being blackmailed (define blackmail Mr Bush - is it anything like "if Saddam and his relatives are not out of the coutry in 48 hours we will attack"?) and about USA being peaceloving (I won't even comment on that, it's such a gasping contradiction in terms), and Iraq having a tradition of violence (from a man who executes prisoners, and even more than any other US presidents). So I say, Bush, you have 48 hours to leave the country because you are a large threat to the world, to democracy, to common sense and to the environment. I demand your full disarming and we suspect that you have mass destructive weapons specifically designed to kill hordes of human beings (the "mothers, fathers, friends and neighbors" you yourself always mention in your speeches). You also control the media flow and you oppress truth and freedom of speech by having people fired and silenced and put away without trials, you are a sad laugh in the face of the free and democratic world you pretend to represent and you mock every God you refer to by acting as far away from Godly as ever possible. You are mad and you have war in your eyes, and I can tolerate this no further. So, 48 hours or... Alas, I have to realize that there is only one nation that can get away with this behaviour. Why? Because they do not question themselves enough, they believe that have the devine right, and they put faith in values I loathe - nationalism, etnocentrism, hypocrisy and revenge. Also, they have more bombs and prime time TV than the rest of the world ever had or will have in three eternities. And that's where we are still at. When all is said and done, the big bully rules the playground - with big fists and a very little little mind. Yours truly,
Daniel

I appreciate Daniel's courage to speak his mind, not giving a damn about what people may think! Respect to him and his band!

NP: Tad Morose - A Mended Rhyme

 

[Villain]

Once again, Daniel Gildenlow from Pain of Salvation makes an excellent point about the war on Iraq.

I appreciate Daniel's courage to speak his mind, not giving a damn about what people may think! Respect to him and his band!

Seems to be an extremely wise individual - perhaps I should one day check out his music...

-Villain

 

[Timmeth]

The only reason the USA began the war is oil. And also they want to show the whole world how strong they are. No doubt, they'll find nuclear or biological weapon but nobody will be able to prove if it's really Iraq's weapon or not.

If it's in Iraq, it's Iraq's. Simple concept...

 

[Kevin Kitchel]

If it's in Iraq, it's Iraq's. Simple concept...

Yeah, cops never planted drugs on anyone. Ever.

 

[Timmeth]

Yeah, cops never planted drugs on anyone. Ever.

Like we would plant weapons in Iraq? Please, give me a friggin' break.

 

[Alteredmindeath]

The puppet George war Bush is slowly making our earth bleed with destruction and leading all the nations to hate him and compare him to Hitler. He's thirsty for the black blood {oil} and world domination it nauseates me to live in America now for I predict another Pearl Harbor only this time NUCLEAR BLASTS WILL BE FELT AND THE HEAVENS WILL OPEN UP.........THE END.

 

[Timmeth]

The puppet George war Bush is slowly making our earth bleed with destruction and leading all the nations to hate him and compare him to Hitler. He's thirsty for the black blood {oil} and world domination it nauseates me to live in America now for I predict another Pearl Harbor only this time NUCLEAR BLASTS WILL BE FELT AND THE HEAVENS WILL OPEN UP.........THE END.

Total Jargon...

...It's hilarious

 

[Wraith]

If it's in Iraq, it's Iraq's. Simple concept...

Timmeth, in that situation USA and Great Britain can do anything they want. Nobody control them. The only proof that Saddam has such a weapon would be if he used it against invaders.

 

[Timmeth]

Timmeth, in that situation USA and Great Britain can do anything they want. Nobody control them. The only proof that Saddam has such a weapon would be if he used it against invaders.

Eh, you don't always have to catch the guy with his pants down. Evidence, friend, evidence...

 

[bAcid-x]

us wants to bring democracy to the iraq but i think there will be no iraq soon