Where can I buy clothes not made in fucked up countries ?

[Mago]

Sorry guys, this post is in (Québec) French.

Sacrament, tu me fais presque honte d'être québécois. À presque chaque post de toi que je lis, les rares fois que je viens sur le forum, j'ragequit.

Pour quelqu'un qui a dit dans le passé avoir vécu à Montréal pendant un bout de temps, tu dois pas y avoir cotoyé beaucoup de gens d'autres origines. Le cas échéant, tu comprendrais que l'exception extrémiste n'est pas la norme et que le fanatisme religieux n'est pas caractéristique d'une population, mais bien de ses dirigeants. Ça arrive particulièrement dans des sociétés structurellement faibles où les forces extrémistes sont en place depuis plus longtemps et deviennent donc les seuls corps assez organisés pour diriger le pays.

Pis qu'est-ce que t'en sais de si c'est bon ou non pour notre économie ? Google "avantages comparatifs", tu vas catcher que la raison pourquoi la manufacture est en Chine, c'est pour qu'on se consacre de notre côté à ce qui nécessite plus de recherche et développement.

Anyway I'm out.

IN FRENCH, DIDN'T READ; the ignorance reeking from this post pissed me off to a level prompting me to react heavily in his (our) mother tongue... even if it's just some dude in the Internet.

Pissed off level: French


I'm also not too happy with extreme antifas.
Overheated acting without thinking is what gets you in problems with that kind of stuff in the first place.
Not implying that all people identifying with it are that way, but from my experience with discussing this so far I also got called names, just because I said stuff like getting down on the same level isn't really a solution either.
Felt like getting called a nazi just because I didn't want to shoot people that didn't think like me. Kinda weird.

On Topic:
I'm not really getting if it really is his own motive that he wants to buy local, but not wanting to support slavery and helping the locals is generally a good thing, also for the environment.
Saying I don't want to use stuff brown people made would be really dumb though. I wonder on which device he's typing his posts^^

 

[drew_drummer]

I misquoted? I think it's ok to call a sweatshop of a shady brand a shithole, but not an entire country or culture.

Ahhhhh.. you're only saying that coz you live in Brazil.

TURRR HURRRR.

 

[anotherpaul]

This thread needs Mashreef... I wonder where the dude has gone?

On topic: You guys talk about cheap stuff made in Asia, but it's mostly made on factories that are owned by global (or american!) corporations. The only China's or India's fault here is overpopulation that leads to low life level and cheap workers. It's greedy capitalists that utilize it in horrible ways including child labor and such. Investing in your country's economy by buying local made products is a good thing indeed, but most companies choose to manufacture stuff in Asia because it still brings more profit. On the other hand from what I know China has greatly improved its economy and industry over last couple decades and chinese products will continue to rise in quality.

 

[drew_drummer]

Are you nuts? We are anti fascists. It has nothing to do with the color of the skin, we keep the oppressors at bay.

Seriously... you think you're better. But you're just the same old fascism in different clothing. I hate white supremacists and SJW's in equal measure. Actually, I hate SJW's more, because they're snide and condescending. At least with your classic redneck white power guy, you know what you're getting.

 

[narcossintese]

Seriously... you think you're better. But you're just the same old fascism in different clothing.

Tell that to the gay guy who was beaten to death, all his teeth removed with hammers and a huge iron bar gored through his leg last month.
Or the punk guy who got stabbed to death next to the venue two years ago.
Or the two punk dudes that were thrown from a train: one died and the other lost an arm.
Or the waiter that got stabbed to death on the gay parade.

Just to name a very small percentage of the fatal victims of neonazis in recent years in my area. I'm not even considering the whole city and even less the country.

If we want the scene safe for girls, gays, immigrants, blacks, anarchists and everyone else it's our duty not letting the fascists ever feel confortable displaying their hate, because the police won't do shit (actually, they even provide security for the neonazis).

 

[indecizo]

Just another Plendakor thread.

 

[Plendakor]

Yep and I'll put oil on fire. I fucking hate China.
Would you like the reasons ?

 

[Plendakor]

Man, can't I be fed up with my fucking low-quality cheap clothes ?
Can't I just buy around here, things made by my own people ?
Is that racist again?
Whatever.

 

[FarBeyondMetal]

Why don't you guys take it a step further. Buy computers and cell phones made exclusively in America or the EU. Make sure any audio gear you buy is either made in USA, EU or Canada. Including all the parts sourced to make those "Made in the USA/EU/Canada" products. If they used any parts to build their end product that came from a developing country then it doesn't count, it's unethical.

I mean come on it's literally everywhere you can look. This clothing thing is such fucking bullshit because it goes so much deeper than that if you really want to say "I don't want to support unfair labor" go live in the wilderness and self sustain or go fight it in some meaningful way other than buying expensive jeans.

 

[JeffTD]

Common sense tells me I have nothing to add to this. Fuck common sense.

Why don't you go fucking save the whales, reverse global warming, end global hunger and buy your mum a nice pair of ear rings before you go getting your dick in a twist about where your jeans are made.

Why don't you guys take it a step further. Buy computers and cell phones made exclusively in America or the EU. Make sure any audio gear you buy is either made in USA, EU or Canada. Including all the parts sourced to make those "Made in the USA/EU/Canada" products. If they used any parts to build their end product that came from a developing country then it doesn't count, it's unethical.

I mean come on it's literally everywhere you can look. This clothing thing is such fucking bullshit because it goes so much deeper than that if you really want to say "I don't want to support unfair labor" go live in the wilderness and self sustain or go fight it in some meaningful way other than buying expensive jeans.

FFS man, moderation. look, the reason why you can worry about buying clothing made in ethical ways is because that's actually something you have control over in your daily life. Can any of us singularly save whales, reverse global warming, or end hunger? No, but we can make small changes in our individual habits in hope that enough people will follow suit and we can collectively end collective issues.

And just because we can't do all of that singularly doesn't mean we shouldn't try at all. Your bit about only buying stuff if it's 100% MIA/EU/CAN/etc is bullshit because it's functionally impossible but it's also painfully defeatist. Can I buy a computer designed/mfg'd 100% in the US with no ties to unethical labor? No. Does that mean I shouldn't try to do the best I can to avoid it? Definitely not.

The clothing thing is not fucking bullshit just because there are systemic and endemic problems associated with labor ethics and macroeconomics. Your attitude and approach on the other hand is fucking bullshit because not only do you make zero effort to better yourself when it comes to these types of things but you actively deride people who are trying to make a difference.

Kids growing up with cleft lips in Africa are indicative of all kinds of medical/social/socioeconomic problems in the region, but I'm not going to go shitting on Doctors Without Borders or Operation Smile because they're only there fixing lips and not overturning governments and overhauling medical care systems and putting an end to systemic violence.

 

[ArthurD]

Just watch this with subtitles

 

[JasinElric]

Tell that to the gay guy who was beaten to death, all his teeth removed with hammers and a huge iron bar gored through his leg last month.
Or the punk guy who got stabbed to death next to the venue two years ago.
Or the two punk dudes that were thrown from a train: one died and the other lost an arm.
Or the waiter that got stabbed to death on the gay parade.

Just to name a very small percentage of the fatal victims of neonazis in recent years in my area. I'm not even considering the whole city and even less the country.

If we want the scene safe for girls, gays, immigrants, blacks, anarchists and everyone else it's our duty not letting the fascists ever feel confortable displaying their hate, because the police won't do shit (actually, they even provide security for the neonazis).

I don't live in Brazil, I don't know what it's like there. In NYC, we have Antifas behaving exactly the way you do, but we do NOT have a fascist/wp skinhead epidemic. Antifas beat people up for wearing shirts they don't like, or overhearing conversations they don't agree with.

 

[drew_drummer]

Tell that to the gay guy who was beaten to death, all his teeth removed with hammers and a huge iron bar gored through his leg last month.
Or the punk guy who got stabbed to death next to the venue two years ago.
Or the two punk dudes that were thrown from a train: one died and the other lost an arm.
Or the waiter that got stabbed to death on the gay parade.

Just to name a very small percentage of the fatal victims of neonazis in recent years in my area. I'm not even considering the whole city and even less the country.

If we want the scene safe for girls, gays, immigrants, blacks, anarchists and everyone else it's our duty not letting the fascists ever feel confortable displaying their hate, because the police won't do shit (actually, they even provide security for the neonazis).

What "scene" ?

You mean the world? Or are you limiting your shitty philosophies to the world of metal? I just don't get what you mean by "scene".

What have you done for any of those people? The answer is most likely the zero-sum of fuck all.

In my opinion, the social justice anarcho warriors just make things worse with their blinkered and often racist opinions.

 

[narcossintese]

What "scene" ?

You mean the world? Or are you limiting your shitty philosophies to the world of metal? I just don't get what you mean by "scene".

What have you done for any of those people? The answer is most likely the zero-sum of fuck all.

In my opinion, the social justice anarcho warriors just make things worse with their blinkered and often racist opinions.

The musical and political scene that I frequent. What do I do?

-A weekly podcast/radio program interviewing social movements and independent bands, and playing their songs.
-A site with news, articles and releases covering the underground.
-The site also has the scheduled undergrounds events of the month that you won't find anywhere else.
-A monthly festival with independent punk/metal/rap bands, zine and and social movements together.
-A venue akin to Ungdomshusets, but in lower scale, with a stage, a library and a bar where we make shows, festivals, debates, expositions and dozens of other events of the underground.
-A shitload of other activities.

Everything for free, as an activist. What about you? "Zero-sum of fuck all"?

As you can imagine I see, talk and live with a lot of different people from different backgrounds doing these things, and guess what, the fascists are a common and constant problem to everyone: from the poor black rapper living in the slums to the upper class gay college girl. I side with the opressed and you can be dead sure that we won't allow a neonazi hang around the people we like.

We have been through a ruthless militar dictatorship less than 3 decades ago that still has strong reflexes on our society. "Chill" and watch the hate crimes rise isn't an option.

 

[drew_drummer]

It's really easy and convinient to label anyone who disagrees with you a fascist. Allows you to just get away with not taking their arguments or position very seriously, and lets you sweep them under the rug.

 

[Plendakor]

You talk like there's a million neonazis everywhere and you need to police the world. Maybe around your parts, I don't know.
The majority of the people is well civilized here so that's not a reality that I'm much aware of. I don't know any of those assholes.

What do you think of Varg Vikernes's opinion ?

 

[narcossintese]

It's really easy and convinient to label anyone who disagrees with you a fascist. Allows you to just get away with not taking their arguments or position very seriously, and lets you sweep them under the rug.

It's really easy to label a fascist a shithead who beats immigrants, women, gays and left minded people. It's not easy nor convenient to fight them, it's hard and stressful, but necessary to keep our place safe.

Now, what is easy and convenient is pretend to be blind and let them kill at will without fighting back. What is easy and convenient is to take hate speech as "freedom of speech". What is easy and convenient is disguise racism and xenophobia as an ideology.

What do you think of Varg Vikernes's opinion ?

Haven't read the text, but I saw a documentary where he spills his disgusting xenophobia and that was enough. I think it was called "Until The Light Take Us" or something like this... it's the one where he tells how he used to shoot a McDonalds restaurant with a rifle because they were americans and how he burned churches because he decided that christians shouldn't be allowed on "his" country. There's also a scene were they are super happy because a friend of them murdered a gay person.

Fortunately I know better than to judge the scandinavians based on these few imbeciles, and I've met a lot of good, tolerant and inteligent people during my stay in Scandinavia.

 

[Plendakor]

I watched it a few weeks ago, and the part with the one who's happy that the other killed a guy is just sick. Should be in maximum security prison for being happy about that.

 

[JasinElric]

It's really easy to label a fascist a shithead who beats immigrants, women, gays and left minded people. It's not easy nor convenient to fight them, it's hard and stressful, but necessary to keep our place safe.

Now, what is easy and convenient is pretend to be blind and let them kill at will without fighting back. What is easy and convenient is to take hate speech as "freedom of speech". What is easy and convenient is disguise racism and xenophobia as an ideology.

Where I live, your opinion is so common and safe it's not moving in the slightest. You're no underdog where I live, maybe you should relocate. No better place to preach to your own choir than NYC. We don't have any neo-nazis to beat up, but any whitey with a shred of dignity will do. It's really important to make sure everyone retains their sense of identity EXCEPT whitey.

 

[Plendakor]

Don't denigrate the white people.
The most beautiful girls in the world are white.
They would win the Olympics in term of beauty.