Where do ideas of good and evil come from?

[Kenneth R.]

You're living in a different world than the rest of us.

actually i'm living in the same world as you unless i've somehow skipped into a parallel one in my sleep. :Smug:


see again this:

"but it is true that a society's view of right and wrong is determined, like its perspective on history, by those currently in power."

while it is likely that many members of our current society and those of the the past have been blinded by their rulers, there are those among us who do not set our morality after the ruling class. this quote is a generalizing statement and is blatantly wrong when taken on a case by case basis.

history, on the otherhand, i would agree defers to rulers and those in power to write.

 

[Demiurge]

Might makes right.

absurdly incorrect, but humanity has grown akin to that concept.

Rephrase your response please. Are you saying "might makes right" has been an important value in the development of humanity? Or are you saying humanity has come to be dominated by this aphorism(as in our time)?

 

[Kenneth R.]

i'm saying that it is a problematic formula exploited by humanity since who knows when. and that things are not "right" simply because the person with the biggest penis said so.

 

[Intoxicator]

The people with the biggest penises right now are the Christian church and this shitty nation that has been built upon it.

 

[Kenneth R.]

The people with the biggest penises right now are the Christian church and this shitty nation that has been built upon it.

what is this Christian church? there is no such thing... i assume you mean roman catholics.

and i seriously doubt the united states follows its doctrines or values. i was referring to whoever is "in charge" of any era, they don't brainwash every individual by default. not everyone is stupid enough to blindly follow the leader's dictates on what is "good" and what is "bad."

 

[Demiurge]

i'm saying that it is a problematic formula exploited by humanity since who knows when. and that things are not "right" simply because the person with the biggest penis said so.

This "exploitation" comes with the territory. Those in power use it to control those not. It will forever be, as without people exercising will, absolutely nothing would happen on a social or political level That said, I obviously do not believe whoever's in charge is right. After all, I live in the United States.

 

[Kenneth R.]

to that, i totally agree with you.

 

[Intoxicator]

what is this Christian church? there is no such thing... i assume you mean roman catholics.

and i seriously doubt the united states follows its doctrines or values. i was referring to whoever is "in charge" of any era, they don't brainwash every individual by default. not everyone is stupid enough to blindly follow the leader's dictates on what is "good" and what is "bad."

I simply meant that Christianity rules the US.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I simply meant that Christianity rules the US.

i disagree. if it did, my job as a Christian would be a lot simpler. and people would not be ridiculing my beliefs left and right.

instead, some bastardized version of religion codenamed 'christianity' (though it is not) rules the US.

 

[no country for old wainds]

i disagree. if it did, my job as a Christian would be a lot simpler. and people would not be ridiculing my beliefs left and right.

I imagine that most people you have trouble with give different arguments against Christianity than those who claim that it is the basis for the values of the USA/Europe (and still oppose it). Those in the latter category tend to be opposing ideologies like egalitarianism, and this is a rare thing in the modern USA or Europe.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I imagine that most people you have trouble with give different arguments against Christianity than those who claim that it is the basis for the values of the USA/Europe (and still oppose it). Those in the latter category tend to be opposing ideologies like egalitarianism, and this is a rare thing in the modern USA or Europe.

what does that have to do with the previous few posts? though i would agree...

 

[no country for old wainds]

You suggest that Americans wouldn't give you as much trouble for your beliefs if Christianity ruled the US. I say that the elements of Christianity which the US value system is based on are rarely opposed, and that those you have trouble with probably tend to attack your belief in God's existence which, despite the best efforts of various Christian authorities, was always going to start being widely doubted eventually. It's rare that one would give you trouble for holding liberal values.

 

[speed]

Yes GOD, but he is far better off holding his heretical christian beliefs in America, rather than in say Europe. But really, if one is going to have his own beliefs in a religion, he will be attacked anywhere he goes.

 

[Kenneth R.]

you are both incorrect.

i was referring to the state of things which has been proven not only the case in the US but worldwide. this state being that the world in general has gotten some notion of what christianity is and stands for, and they pass judgment based on that notion. however, this notion as explained in the other thread, is also incorrect. they don't understand what christianity really means, or are unwilling to accept that definition. instead, they blanket the entirety of this stupidity that claims to be "christian" under control of the government, corporations, and self indulgent greed.

i was stating that if the US was run by a truly christian system, i would have less to complain about regarding the mis-representation of my beliefs and the fingers that point at it without knowing why.

 

[no country for old wainds]

This society is a product of Christianity whether it stays true to the *real cause* or not (irrelevant), as I've said all along.

 

[Silver Incubus]

well i have thought about good and evil much in my life, and finally boiled it down to,
Good = selflessness
Bad = selfishness

and the only good or bad things are intentions. So even though you give to charity, if you only do it for a tax break, you are still doing it for evil purposes.

There are many christian beliefs that promote selflessness, and that is good, but as I said in another post, A beautiful bottle with poison on the insides is still poison on the inside.

I can defend the selfless and selfish posistion against anything

 

[speed]

well i have thought about good and evil much in my life, and finally boiled it down to,
Good = selflessness
Bad = selfishness

and the only good or bad things are intentions. So even though you give to charity, if you only do it for a tax break, you are still doing it for evil purposes.

There are many christian beliefs that promote selflessness, and that is good, but as I said in another post, A beautiful bottle with poison on the insides is still poison on the inside.

I can defend the selfless and selfish posistion against anything

People rarely do anything selfless without attempting to satisfy themselves or their own distorted ego. Many people get off on helping people not to actually help them, but to help themselves.

And selfishness in many forms can be beneficial; the selfish scientist, writer, politcal leader etc.

Its not so easy to define good and bad is what I am saying.

 

[no country for old wainds]

*butts in with a "there's no such thing as selflessness" comment*

 

[Silver Incubus]

*butts in with a "there's no such thing as selflessness" comment*

then what is the relationship between a parent and a child then?

 

[Silver Incubus]

People rarely do anything selfless without attempting to satisfy themselves or their own distorted ego. Many people get off on helping people not to actually help them, but to help themselves.

And selfishness in many forms can be beneficial; the selfish scientist, writer, politcal leader etc.

Its not so easy to define good and bad is what I am saying.

Just because selfishness is rampid in our society today doesn't mean it is always like that.

So you buy a younger silbling some ice cream knowing that they will enjoy it doesn't count as selfless?