Who you leaning towards in 2008 Presidential Election?

[EVERLOSTINDEADETERNITY]

I give up on politics. Its like trying to figure out who to place bets on at UFC 85 when 8 eight different fights have to have replaced fighters. Pure anarchy.

 

[Reign in Acai]

Bah fuck it. If this is how you chose to present yourself, then you should be prepared for criticism.

Pfft. You mindlessly resort to an ad hominem argument to challenge my statement that this man is unfit to run the nation. Did I ever attack Nick, Matt, Greg, or yourself anywhere in these past 11 pages?!!? Sure I called a spade a spade, but I didn't lower myself to the ignoble approach of attacking anyone on their character. Forgive me for foolishly expecting to receive the same respect.


Bah fuck it indeed!!!

 

[neal]

O rly? This seems to be another piece of baseless junk rhetoric nearly as bad as the Muslim slur. The political positions of Barack Obama

"The time has come for universal health care in America [...] I am absolutely determined that by the end of the first term of the next president, we should have universal health care in this country."

On January 30, 2007, Obama introduced the Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007 into Congress. Among other things, the Act calls for capping the level of troops in Iraq at January 2007 levels, and for commencing a phased redeployment of US forces from Iraq "with the goal of removing all combat brigades from Iraq by March 31, 2008, a date that is consistent with the expectation of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group.

I'd say that those two actions are indicative of 'change', no?

>>yeh, national heath care is a change in the wrong direction, and that iraq war bill is just unrealistic bullshit posturing for the anti-war crowd

While I do disagree with national healthcare, what are my options? A vote for Hillary is a vote for national healthcare, a vote for Barack is a vote for national healthcare, a vote for McCain is just so fucking sad I could cry. Besides, while it is a socialist policy I hardly think that it can be called 'socialism', and if you think that this single policy is going to transform our existing nanny state into some radical form of socialism then you are being naive. I'm also against raising the minimum wage, which is another piece of socialist legislation that Obama has passed. SO WHAT. At this point in the downturn of our entire country, minimum wage and universal healthcare are two things that I'm not going to lose sleep over.

>>national health care is one of the main reasons im worried about the democrats. the costs would be insane, and the same worthless bums that dont deserve it are the same that would abuse it. "a hangnail?!?! better go to the ER cause its free!@"

This just in: Is Bogus Michelle Obama Rumor Based On A Work Of Fiction?

Yes, this incredibly speculative video WHICH NOBODY HAS SEEN could very possibly be based off of a 2006 novel:

We went out and got the book. And sure enough, in the novel, Wood's opponents discover video of the candidate himself -- not his wife -- discussing with a radical black minister how he will "f--- whitey" when he gets into office, despite all his public rhetoric about racial reconciliation.

I couldn't give a fuck what a candidate's spouse does. Those are personal decisions made by that individual. Do you make judgments about Phil Hartman's character based on his murderous nut wife?

>>ok what does any of that nonsense have to do with my point of him being a two-faced, flipping stance for a new crowd, lying politician? i didnt even mention that new wife video because it wasnt confirmed yet...and because some similar (not even the same thing) situation happened in a book that MUST mean thats where they got this whole video scandal from? thats pretty thin.

Illinois senator from 1996-2004, US Senator since 2004. 12 years of political experience for a 47 year old candidate is very little? I might also go out on a limb and say that having someone not so entrenched in this administration's era of cronyism (as say McCain is for example) is a VERY GOOD THING.

>>but hes spent half of his only experience at the national level campaigning for another job! im not sure myself if the lack of experience is a good or bad thing, but using his age to defend his lack of experience is really just adding to the other side's argument.


Yep

yep

People give the office of the president too much credit. Do you seriously think that any of that hyperbolic shitty shit will happen? I'm enough of a conservative myself to hope that none of that ever happens, but I'll say it again: What are our fucking options?

>>people do give too much credit/power to the office of the president, but with the congress on their side they're got a lot of power. just look at what bush did at the beginning with a conservative congress and fear of attacks! also, the safety nazis are continuously getting newer and more restrictive laws passed. they just passed a new one in sacramento county that children under 18 MUST wear a life vest when they swim in the river. a fucking 17 year old on the swim team is required by law to wear a life vest. there is no end to the possibilities of personal intrusion under the guise of 'safety'

Here's another angle to look at this whole thing fro if he lives that long, to probably make 2 Supreme Court appointments. 2 more Scalia's on the bench and this country runs the serious risk, not the overblown fear-mongering risk, of setting some dangerous fucking Supreme Court precedents on issues like church/state separation, abortion, gay marriage, teaching of evolution, etc. If anything, vote for a liberal if only to weaken the influence of evangelical, fundamentalist, Christianity on our courts and political system.

>>yep, its a tough call this time. do i want the possibility of all my money going to pay med bills for someones kids that i dont even know because the worthless parents cant support them? or do i want to stay in the middle east for long time and have more god nonsense. i dunno, supreme court justices dont always turn out how they're 'supposed to'

fuck em all

 

[skeptik]

I like how everybody always focuses on the most horrible people on the world when they think of paying money for a universal healthcare program that they so quickly forget that they're paying for themselves as well, as if, of course, the vast majority of people who need help are worthless pieces of shit who don't even merit a good loogey to put out a fire. Everybody forgets that the government is not here to look out for what's best for you, but rather what's best for the nation as a collective, and maybe what's best for you is not in line with what the nation really needs. Is it impossible to think of anything but your own needs?

 

[dorian gray]

Oh man, you'd be surprised at the condition most hospital patients keep themselves in. The vast majority of them are hugely overweight and suffer from self-imposed chronic diseases brought on by tobacco, alcohol, drugs, and diet. It's honestly QUITE disgusting. In essence, I already pay for the poor choices of these people with my ever-increasing insurance premiums. I've spent countless thousands in premiums and I've never set foot in a hospital as a patient in my entire adult life.

I need to do more research on this before I reach my final conclusion.

My basic understanding is this:
Millions of people don't have health insurance - not to be confused by health care, which is accessible to everyone, apparently even illegal aliens, by the EMTaLa Act. When they get the bill in the mail, they just don't pay it. The hospital "loses" money. This is a euphemism for "passed on to paying costumers". Thusly, insurance premiums increase, making it ever more difficult for employers to offer it to their employees. It's a vicious cycle. Perhaps universal health care is the answer. I don't know.

 

[dorian gray]

Yeah, I can see that as being beneficial, seeing as how EMTaLa already rapes the system. It actually might be cheaper for everyone if we all pay for some minimal form of insurance.
I feel my opinion is completely insignificant though as we continue to funnel trillions of dollars (loans from foreign countries, actually) into the "war on terror", the "war on ******, and other wasteful practices like NASA and the money-pit that is our transportation system. All this money could pay for health care, no?

 

[Necro Joe]

That a person wouldn't want to contribute to making sure everyone in society can get basic medical treatment is something I don't think I'll ever understand. The US apparently not only has the worst health system of any developed country, but you guys are, I believe, already paying more towards it in taxes than the vast majority of people in nations with full health care services. The UK's NHS has its problems, but the idea that it even approaches the level of awful seen in the US system is flatly untrue.

 

[Hell Mike]

Fuck poor people

word nigga

 

[EricT]

I don't really see what's fundamentally wrong with our current health care system. You get what you pay for. I don't see anywhere in the US constitution that outlines the right to health insurance, and I especially don't see the amendment that says it's the federal government's job to provide it.

Yeah, this health care system works great for us tax payers who can't afford it, but haven't shot out enough children to get it paid for by the government for us.. :Smokin:

I'd atleast like to visit a hospital sometime, I hear they're awesome.

 

[En Vind Av Sorg]

You can get decent health insurance for around $100 a month with the current system. I bet I make less than most of you and I can still afford it.

 

[swizzlenuts]

This made me laugh quite a bit...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9izhjnaLa3M&eurl[/ame]

 

[Conspicuously Absent]

I don't get how people could vote for somebody who believes in santa, the easter bunny, the bogeyman, god, fairy tells or that bigass spider that jacked miss muffet's tuffet.


As to "fuck the poor", well, fuck you too!

 

[Hell Mike]

As to "fuck the poor", well, fuck you too!

I was kinda ironic in my statement just so you know. Or well, fuck the poor and the negroes and all kinds of "minorities", but I think that view on healthcare is a wee bit skewed.

 

[skeptik]

How about you ask yourself why not? Socialism is not a dirty word, first of all, and I'm sick of it being treated as such, because it's just stupidly naive to do so. Secondly, when you have over 10% of the entire country completely without health insurance, there comes a time where you might want to think about stepping in and doing something about it. An ad hoc governmental system that takes the best elements of each political system is better than a government that just sticks to its guns no matter how blatantly inept it proves to be. Frankly, there are far, far worse things that we spend our money on than fucking ensuring that our citizens have health care and are not going to be completely financially devastated and have their lives ruined because they can't afford medical expenses that are out of their control and were utterly unpreventable.

 

[dorian gray]

Well, yeah, that's what I was getting at, too. Yet, I question whether universal health care is the answer. No one seemed interested in discussing my points on why health care is prohibitively expensive in the first place: that people without insurance use the world's best health care and don't bother to pay for it. Do you think illegal immigrants bother even looking at hospital bills? These costs are recovered by paying costumers.

I'm starting to wonder if Senator Clinton's idea of forcing everyone to buy insurance wasn't such a bad idea.

 

[dorian gray]

You can get decent health insurance for around $100 a month with the current system. I bet I make less than most of you and I can still afford it.

Perfect example right here. He can do it, why can't these other assholes? You know why? Because they are too busy driving around in brand new Chevy Heavy-Duty trucks (uninsured, of course). That's why.

 

[dorian gray]

Reminds me of the time recently when a patient was worried about the cost of a procedure I was about to perform, because she didn't have insurance and didn't want to pay for it. What was she doing while telling me this? Watching a DVD on a huge new laptop. Do I have a fucking laptop?

 

[dorian gray]

This made me laugh quite a bit...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9izhjnaLa3M&eurl

WHAT IS THIS FUCKING IDIOT TALKING ABOUT?
Not only does this Presidential candidate struggle to string sentences together, he's wrong on every single point he's trying to make. Has this asshole ever taken a history class?

 

[skeptik]

I don't think any truly good solution to this problem will not be multi-faceted. There are a lot of different issues with the health care crisis that need to be addressed, including how to (or not to) incorporate coverage for those who may not be paying into the system, and certainly the causes for health care being so excessively expensive. I'm not prepared to jump up and say that universal health care is the answer, but I think that it, or something similar, in effect if not in essence, will be part of the answer.

 

[dorian gray]

Possibly. Perhaps McCain will lead us!