Who you leaning towards in 2008 Presidential Election?

[swizzlenuts]

Are you serious?

 

[Reign in Acai]

By Ken Dilanian and Richard Wolf, USA TODAY
A look at some of the claims made by Sen. Joe Biden and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin in the vice presidential debate Thursday night in St. Louis:



The claim: Palin said Sen. Barack Obama voted 94 times to increase taxes.

The facts: Non-partisan FactCheck.org called that count, which has been cited before by Republicans, "inflated and misleading." Examining the 94 votes at issue, FactCheck.org found that 23 were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all; they were against proposed tax cuts.


Seven were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, while raising them on a relative few, either corporations or affluent individuals, according to FactCheck.org, which is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania.

The 94 tally includes two, three and even four votes on the same measure.

Tax rate changes

The claim: Palin said Obama's plan to raise the top income tax rate would affect "millions of small businesses." Biden responded that the vast majority of small businesses do not report more than $250,000 in income.

The facts: The liberal Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, citing 2003 data from the non-partisan Tax Policy Center, said in a report that 436,000 tax filers with small-business income — 1.3% of the 32.8 million filers with small-business income — were subject to the top income tax rate. Another Tax Policy Center analysis concluded that "roughly 97% of small businesses would not be affected at all by increases in the top two tax rates."

Health care

The claim: Palin said Obama wants a "universal, government-run program" and "health care being taken over by the feds."

The facts: Obama's health-care plan does not call for a government takeover. In fact, it isn't even universal. It would only cover all children. Obama's plan would give Americans the opportunity to have government health insurance, but they also could pick a private plan.

Energy

The claim: Biden said he has "always" supported clean coal. He said "a comment made at a rope line was taken out of context" by John McCain's campaign.

The facts: In the video, recorded at the beginning of Biden's bus trip across Ohio last week, he is seen responding to a question about why the campaign is supporting clean coal. "We're not supporting clean coal," he says. "Guess what? China is building two every week, two dirty coal plants. And it's polluting the United States, it's causing people to die."

As the exchange continues, Biden says: "China's gonna burn 300 years of bad coal unless we figure out how to clean their coal up, because it's gonna ruin your lungs, and there's nothing we can do about it. No coal plants here in America. Build 'em, if they're gonna build 'em, over there and make 'em clean because they're killing you."

Mortgage crisis

The claim: Biden said McCain said he was "surprised" by the subprime mortgage crisis.

The facts: McCain's use of the word "surprised" came in response to a leading question in New Hampshire last December. At the time, he compared it to the dot-com collapse of the late 1990s, adding: "I was surprised at other times in our history. I don't know if surprised is the word." Later in the same interview, he said, "When I say 'surprised,' I'm not surprised when in capitalist systems that there's greed and excess."

Troop funding

The claim: Each vice presidential candidate said the opposing presidential candidate voted against funding U.S. troops in Iraq.

The facts: Palin's charge that Obama voted against funding the troops is true. But Obama said at the time that he wanted to fund the troops, but the bill in question didn't include a requirement that President Bush begin bringing troops home. Similarly, Biden's charge that McCain also voted against funding is true — because the bill in question included a timeline for withdrawing troops, and McCain opposes timelines.

Diplomacy

The claim: Biden said Obama did not say he would meet with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. "This is simply not true about Barack Obama," he said. "He did not say sit down with Ahmadinejad."

The facts: At a news conference in New York City in September 2007, Obama was asked, "Senator, you've said before that you'd meet with President Ahmadinejad … would you still meet with him today?" He replied: "Yeah, nothing's changed with respect to my belief that strong countries and strong presidents talk to their enemies and talk to their adversaries."

The claim: RIA says Gov Palin has an extraordinary ass.

The facts: It is indeed extraordinary.

 

[EricT]

Are you serious?

Very.

Name 3 things Obama has done in Senate that have effected us in any way.

Also, name 3 things Obama has written, excluding his books, job applications, grocery lists, memo's to his campaign, etc.

If you can name 3, name 5 (i know of 3, but am unsure of any beyond)?

Name 3 item's Obama has done in his entire life to help our situation.

Name 3 item's that at one point Obama has not flip-flopped on.

Cite sources.

For bonus points: Name 1 government program Obama will cut or lower funding on for every 5 programs he will increase funding for or add?

I can do the same thing but for McCain if you want?

 

[swizzlenuts]

lol, I like the edit at the end.

Anyways, pretty much all of that I knew from the first two debates. I actually said, WTF, when Biden said Obama wouldn't meet with the Iranian president, because Obama clearly said he would in the Presidential debate.

EDIT: At RiA

 

[swizzlenuts]

Very.

Name 3 things Obama has done in Senate that have effected us in any way.

Also, name 3 things Obama has written, excluding his books, job applications, grocery lists, memo's to his campaign, etc.

If you can name 3, name 5 (i know of 3, but am unsure of any beyond)?

Name 3 item's Obama has done in his entire life to help our situation.

Name 3 item's that at one point Obama has not flip-flopped on.

Cite sources.

For bonus points: Name 1 government program Obama will cut or lower funding on for every 5 programs he will increase funding for or add?

I can do the same thing but for McCain if you want?

What does this have to do with someone being down to earth and unprofessional?

 

[skeptik]

And he should meet with him.

 

[EricT]

What does this have to do with someone being down to earth and unprofessional?

Well, the man talks like a normal human being (or atleast did), and I respect(ed) that portion of him. However, his unprofessional and inexperienced aspects, pertaining to his history and his current running program, are very unappealing, and are part of the reason why Palin was picked for VP. She has no experience, he has no experience. She's unprofessional and outside of the norm, he's pretty unprofessional and outside of the norm as well.

 

[EricT]

Oh, I should state that I have eaten my words about Ifill. She was very fair and my doubts were proven false.

 

[swizzlenuts]

I don't think he talks to down to earth, like Palin. I don't know what you're talking about; I'm specifically talking about the terminology, like using Joe six pack and standard 'slang' terms.

How isn't Obama not qualified? Isn't teaching constitutional law and being apart of the Senate worthy?

 

[EricT]

I don't think he talks to down to earth, like Palin. I don't know what you're talking about; I'm specifically talking about the terminology, like using Joe six pack and standard 'slang' terms.

How isn't Obama not qualified? Isn't teaching constitutional law and being apart of the Senate worthy?

He NEVER taught constitutional law. He was a Senior lecturer, and he was on leave for most of that time.

As for Senate. What the hell has he done in 2 years, citing sources, that doesn't involve receiving $126,349 from fannie mae and freddy mac. Shit, most of the time he's been in senate, he's been out on the campaign trail, not even participating in his senate duties.

Obama used to talk just about like Palin, not as much slang, but he used his youngster hip words to impress people in his speeches. He still uses them occasionally, just to try and get that young persons vote.

 

[swizzlenuts]

He NEVER taught constitutional law. He was a Senior lecturer, and he was on leave for most of that time.

As for Senate. What the hell has he done in 2 years, citing sources, that doesn't involve receiving $126,349 from fannie mae and freddy mac. Shit, most of the time he's been in senate, he's been out on the campaign trail, not even participating in his senate duties.

Obama used to talk just about like Palin, not as much slang, but he used his youngster hip words to impress people in his speeches. He still uses them occasionally, just to try and get that young persons vote.

1. http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/was_barack_obama_really_a_constitutional_law.html

2. By looking at his page on Wikipedia it's pretty clear that he's been active.

3. When I've heard Obama speak, I haven't really seen anything more than just being a good speaker.

 

[EricT]

I have no disagreements with your view on why Palin was picked. However, you may want to add "distraction from McCain for a few weeks" to that list. The media has been so focused on her, that I'm sure there's some idiots out there who think she's running for president.

As for ignoramus, I disagree. She has differing opinions, but presents them in a well spoken way. However, the media once again, is not portraying her for who she is. They're cutting any answer that can't be taken as stupid from their broadcasts, and just keeping the shit for ratings.

For McCain, this is good, it cuts the attention off of any fuckups he may have and it all focuses on Palin. Couldn't have picked a better candidate.

 

[swizzlenuts]

She's a fucking creationist. A creationist should not be a fucking Vice President or anything in power; this will hurt us quite a bit.

 

[EricT]

1. http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/was_barack_obama_really_a_constitutional_law.html

2. By looking at his page on Wikipedia it's pretty clear that he's been active.

3. When I've heard Obama speak, I haven't really seen anything more than just being a good speaker.

Well, 3 classes per year. Got me there. Didn't check up on that myself.

However, any course curriculum available for his classes taught? I'd like to see what he did teach.

 

[EricT]

She's a fucking creationist. A creationist should not be a fucking Vice President or anything in power; this will hurt us quite a bit.

Isn't Obama a creationist? And Biden?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[EricT]

She scored in the Hannity interview because hannity is just shit at his job. He didn't ask questions, he made statements and she ran off statements. Can't disagree with that.

However, the amount of shit that has been cut from Palin's interviews is a problem. Why haven't we seen the entire 2 hours of the couric interview? Where is the charlie gibson 2 hour interview? Why haven't they been aired in their entirety, and where are the transcripts? It's not a fucking excuse, it's a problem with the mainstream media.

 

[EricT]

From Barack's info page at atheism.about.com:

"Barack Obama does accept evolutionary science and, moreover, he opposes teaching any form of creationism - including Intelligent Design creationism - alongside evolution in public schools. "

For some reason I find that hard to believe. From his own book:

"I was not raised in a religious household. My maternal grandparents, who hailed from Kansas, had been steeped in Baptist and Methodist teachings as children, but religious faith never really took root in their hearts. My mother's own experiences as a bookish, sensitive child growing up in small towns in Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas only reinforced this inherited skepticism. [...] My father was almost entirely absent from my childhood, having been divorced from my mother when I was 2 years old; in any event, although my father had been raised a Muslim, by the time he met my mother he was a confirmed atheist, thinking religion to be so much superstition.

It was because of these newfound understandings–that religious commitment did not require me to suspend critical thinking, disengage from the battle for economic and social justice, or otherwise retreat from the world that I knew and loved–that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity United Church of Christ one day and be baptized. It came about as a choice and not an epiphany; the questions I had did not magically disappear. But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side of Chicago, I felt God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth."

I can't find someone who speaks of that being an evolutionist, personally. Maybe believing in evolution, but in the end I feel he believes all was created by god.

Atleast that's how I read it.

 

[swizzlenuts]

I'm curious Eric... What do you like about McCain? What about his positions do you like so much? (don't give me any shit about how Obama sucks, I just want to know why you favour McCain)

 

[swizzlenuts]

For some reason I find that hard to believe. From his own book:

"I was not raised in a religious household. My maternal grandparents, who hailed from Kansas, had been steeped in Baptist and Methodist teachings as children, but religious faith never really took root in their hearts. My mother's own experiences as a bookish, sensitive child growing up in small towns in Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas only reinforced this inherited skepticism. [...] My father was almost entirely absent from my childhood, having been divorced from my mother when I was 2 years old; in any event, although my father had been raised a Muslim, by the time he met my mother he was a confirmed atheist, thinking religion to be so much superstition.

It was because of these newfound understandings–that religious commitment did not require me to suspend critical thinking, disengage from the battle for economic and social justice, or otherwise retreat from the world that I knew and loved–that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity United Church of Christ one day and be baptized. It came about as a choice and not an epiphany; the questions I had did not magically disappear. But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side of Chicago, I felt God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth."

I can't find someone who speaks of that being an evolutionist, personally. Maybe believing in evolution, but in the end I feel he believes all was created by god.

Atleast that's how I read it.

Research Ken Miller, it should become very clear.

Also, wtf is an Evolutionist?

 

[EricT]

Well, sure, he probably has the same stakes in Evolution that McCain has... it has happened. But the thing is, to me atleast looking at this from my perspective, if you asked him: "what created this world", what would his answer be? My guess is "God".

I'm pretty against teaching creationism in schools, as everyone, creationist and evolutionist alike. It doesn't help anybody in the end. But for fucks sake, I'm sick of hypocrits who will spout out shit about "evolution this, evolution that" but then go home and pray to a god... it's ridiculous.