Why are 99% of metal bassists completely useless?

[NAD]

It's not like this in other genres, and it hasn't always been this way in metal. Geezer Butler, Steve Harris, Cliff Burton, and others filled the bottom end while adding coloUrful funstuffs when they could. Damn near every 70's rock n' roll group that helped to create metal along the way had awesome bassists too.

Yes there are some decent ones around still, but on the whole metal bassists are flat out SHIT musicians, and have been since around 1990 or so. They imitate the roots of the rhythm guitarists, but are so buried in the mix most of the time that they don't even fill the sonic spectrum like they should.

So are all metal bassists the useless redheaded stepchild brother of the lead guitarist or what? Fucking weak sauce.

 

[J.]

haha, that's why I got excited about hearing Nasheim's bass lines. I NEVER hear bass in that type of music.

oh, and yeah, bassists these days are worthless most of the time. It's become a useless instrument today that was widely used for the better back in the early/mid nineties.

SEE Opeth on how not to go about treating a quality bass player. CHeap shot, maybe, but it's relevant in this discussion.

EDIT: NOT trying to start an "Opeth" discussion. But I LOVE the bassist on Orchid.

 

[Mormagil]

PREACH.

Of course they probably just double the guitar parts because it's extremely easy, but don't worry, I'll try not to disappoint you!

haha, that's why I got excited about hearing Nasheim's bass lines. I NEVER hear bass in that type of music.

same here

 

[MFJ]

I always try to make my basslines snazzy or melodic, because damnit, it deserves it!

 

[Ayeka]

Well, Geezer Butler and the like were just coping the guitar lines a lot of the time too, I do believe, it's just the nature of the songs makes 'em sound cooler on bass. When you're backing strictly riff-based stuff I guess you ain't got much freedom to snazz your basslines up I guess...

 

[General Zod]

I think it comes down to a few factors:

1. Where the bass is in the mix. Sheehan left Roth after the 2nd Roth CD because his bass was too low in the mix. Sometimes it doesn't matter if the bass player plays his ass off, if it's buried in the mix, you won't hear it.

2. Metal is guitars and vocals, then drums, then often keys, and finally bass. The fact of the matter is something has to be least prominent in the mix.

3. Because of the nature of the genre, many Metal bass players just hang back, and let their bandmates take the glory.

Zod

 

[JayKeeley]

Well, Geezer Butler and the like were just coping the guitar lines a lot of the time too, I do believe, it's just the nature of the songs makes 'em sound cooler on bass. When you're backing strictly riff-based stuff I guess you ain't got much freedom to snazz your basslines up I guess...

Actually, I thought this as well until I saw (on TV) Geezer Butler playing bass for Ozzy at the Moscow Peace Festival back in '89 I think. They ripped into War Pigs and I was amazed at what Butler was doing on the bass. He wasn't anywhere near Zakk's riff line, and hammering frets pretty wildly.

Bass players and drummers should really play well together. In this capacity, Butler and Ward are wholly underrated, just because of Iommi's towering riffs. Everyone just remembers the Sabbath riffs, and fair enough, but have you ever truly listened to Ward's drumming? Holy mackerel.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

a good bass player gives so much depth, it's sad that bass is so under-utilized in metal

 

[JayKeeley]

Some good modern bass players:

Steve DiGigorgio - even in Testament thrasy music, you can still hear that fretless fucker
Randy Coven - his work on Ark's "Burn the Sun" is huge!! Actually, he's fretless too
The first two Opeth albums - shit that's fretless too....there's a pattern here

I suppose you could walk down the prog path further, but you just end up in "technical bullshit" street.

Jason Newsted followed the riffs to a tee on Justice. Actually, his bass work on the black album is a ton better than his stuff on Justice because he's following Lars, not James. And his basswork on "Until it Sleeps" was great....fretless again!!!

I guess Fretless Bass = win.

 

[NAD]

I used to think the nature of heavy riffs as the focus of music caused a poor field for a bassist, but then I started listening to a lot of stoner rock. It's ridiculous how good many of those dudes are, how they are able to dance around these massive riffs that lay most "metal" bands to utter waste. They are actually part of the band and help to create the sound.

You could phyiscally remove the basslines from most of my metal albums, and nobody would even fucking notice.

 

[JayKeeley]

Well, the bass gives it the bottom end, even if it is copying the guitar riff. You would lose "heaviness".

 

[unhinged]

listen to the bass on hell awaits, tom actually plays
then listen to any slayer after that ....

personally we like to try and give the bass 50% of the guitar space....hence MEAT
there are more bass solos on scald records than guitar

 

[NAD]

Well, the bass gives it the bottom end, even if it is copying the guitar riff. You would lose "heaviness".

But for a lot of albums, it doesn't. The bass gets so buried in the mix that it wouldn't make a difference if it simply wasn't there. The easiest example you already mentioned, And Justice for All. But you could do the same thing to many albums by Slayer, Morbid Angel, At the Gates, and a whole shitload of others. Sepultura was a group that was always good at giving the bass a good, useful mix, even if Paulo's lines mostly copied what Max was doing.

 

[NAD]

personally we like to try and give the bass 50% of the guitar space....hence MEAT
there are more bass solos on scald records than guitar

Right, you dudes are a perfect example of what the bass SHOULD be doing in metal. It fills the sonic spectrum, it sounds fucking good, and is an important part of the music.

 

[Krilons Resa]

a good bass player gives so much depth, it's sad that bass is so under-utilized in metal

 

[JayKeeley]

But for a lot of albums, it doesn't. The bass gets so buried in the mix that it wouldn't make a difference if it simply wasn't there. The easiest example you already mentioned, And Justice for All..

Yeah, but what else sounds like Justice? A bunch of black metal maybe? Otherwise I think without the bass, the music would sound a lot more tinny. That's what the bass does in metal -- it prevents your speakers from sounding like the woofers have blown, and that you're not just listening to the tweeters.

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Pantera had bass. That contributed. Sorry, just listened to FBD again today after along while. Some sick lines on that shit, yo.

 

[MajestikMøøse]

For bass done right see Taake - Nattestid Ser Porten Vid

holy fuck

 

[NAD]

Pantera had bass. That contributed. Sorry, just listened to FBD again today after along while. Some sick lines on that shit, yo.

Oh yeah, that along with Rust in Peace are my favorite metal albums for bass. Both 10/10 BUY OR FUCKING DIE I might add.

 

[Mormagil]

Bass players and drummers should really play well together. In this capacity, Butler and Ward are wholly underrated, just because of Iommi's towering riffs. Everyone just remembers the Sabbath riffs, and fair enough, but have you ever truly listened to Ward's drumming? Holy mackerel.

Yeah, the drums and bass are what I pay attention to most of the time when listening to Sabbath. The guitar is fine, whatever, but the other guys are really something else.