Why is the production so terrible for early black metal albums

[Transilvanian Scotsman]

fvck atmosphere, any band utilizing shit-production on purpose should kill themselves in a blood ritual

music is everything, atmosphere can suck my nuts like its oxygen

Lol. The atmosphere is part of the music. Saying the 2 are separate is silly. Of course, not all music is atmospheric, granted. But a lot of 'classical' music is heavily based on creating a certain atmosphere or image in the listener's head. Surely taking away that atmosphere would make it bland.

Pop music takes pride in good production, it was only in the later 80's and 90's that production became crystal clear. I would not put it past the black metal bands to say 'fuck you pop fags, i'll play my instruments with excess distortion and poorer production,' seems plausible since they would not want to be grouped into the same category. It is there artistic expression of disapproving of the whole Popular culture.

Further, take Darkthrone's - Soulside Journey. It has good production, it is their first album and according to Fenriz in the interview on the re-release cd, they produced the album in the same studios Entombed used. Now, consider their 2nd album , A blaze In The Northern Sky, this is 'bad' production; Fenriz said he chose NOT to use an expensive studio like they did previously. He also chose NOT to play death metal and further chose NOT to be an Entombed clone, which he thought would happen if they did another album like Soulside.
Perhaps, most death metal fans see this as ludicrous. However, closer inspection of 'A blaze' shows that it is much more atmosphere, and far more original (Imo, on that last point).

I think that is 'good' justification as to why some bands would chose to do so. If you don't like the production remember no one is asking you to listen to / like it.

 

[Ginja_Ninja]

whether i like it or not thats not the point, what i don't like is the stupid mentality that something has to be a certain manner for it to be effectively "kvlt" or "nekkro" etc etc, variety is the word, we need both "kvlt" production as well as "pop" production if u get what i'm saying

this silly "underground" mentality has to go away or else, it would defeat the purpose of darkthrone's early albums in the first place

 

[Henrik Main]

Everything else is merely mediocre.

Except "The Majesty Of The Night Sky", "Towards The Pantheon", "Beyond The Great Vast Forest", "Cosmic Keys To My Creations And Times", and.. Well, the rest of the album.

I don't know if they made the production better on the re-release of the album, or if I just have a brilliant sound system. I've never had a problem with ITNE's production, and I can't really understand why it should deserve such criticism as seen in this thread. I had to listen to the album many times before I understood that it in fact is the best Emperor release. One day when I was listening to it, everything just seemed to be perfect. I also think that a "clean" production would make the album sterile and lifeless. The same goes for Darkthrone's "Transilvanian Hunger". A better production would be ridiculous.

When I see people wanting to hear TH with a "good" production, I'm tempted to say that they might as well listen to a completely different album. TH's music and production is inseparable. You cannot just go and remaster an album like these - with a "better" production, TH would be a completely different album, and also a much weaker one.

And oh, the same goes for Ulver's "Nattens Madrigal".

 

[Transilvanian Scotsman]

whether i like it or not thats not the point, what i don't like is the stupid mentality that something has to be a certain manner for it to be effectively "kvlt" or "nekkro" etc etc, variety is the word, we need both "kvlt" production as well as "pop" production if u get what i'm saying

this silly "underground" mentality has to go away or else, it would defeat the purpose of darkthrone's early albums in the first place

necro being the word to describe the 'bad' production, is exactly that, a description. If it was not done in a certain 'manner' then it would not be 'necro' / 'bad'. The antithesis of bad is good, if its not necro then it is 'clean' in production. => It can not be necro with good production, it's fact.
Which brings me to my point of if you dont like that production dont listen to it. A lot of black metal is based on this 'bad' production, if you dont like it, chose death metal (say) as an alternative.

Asking the bands to change their production because you dont like it is futile. The underground mentality aims to keep black metal firmly rooted to its traditions/ideals. In hopes to avoid uninteresting clone bands forming and wishing to ride any fame that the genre may have gained.

As far as 'pop' production (as i put it early) goes, it can be used and it is used in many other metal genres. Which i have nothing against (I do enjoy other types of metal) but I also think it is pointless to force black metal to conform to 'pop' production. Which WOULD defeat the purpose of black metal.


EDIT: See what Henrik said above, i agree 110% with what he said. Also compare Ulver's production in a good studio to Darkthrone's production in a worse studio. As much as I enjoy Nattens Madrigal, the atmosphere doesnt come close to TH (IMO).

 

[Ginja_Ninja]

of course it would, but then again dickheads would conform to "bad" production just for the sake of being nekkro and kvlt.

this is fast becoming another gaythenburg-like trend

 

[polarity]

The underground mentality aims to keep black metal firmly rooted to its traditions/ideals. In hopes to avoid uninteresting clone bands forming and wishing to ride any fame that the genre may have gained.

Well that certainly failed

 

[Ginja_Ninja]

thats right polarity, what he said!!!!

darkthrone cloned bands are no different to uninteresting jewclear blast/gaythenburger clones. the thing is, ppl tend to hide behind the "gaythenburger" shittalk when in fact the "underground" and the tr00ly kvlt nekkro grim frostbitten dipshits are doing the exact same thing but only with an emphasis on the "atmosphere" which sounds rediculous

 

[Transilvanian Scotsman]

Dickhead is a subjective term. It's hard to explain the reasoning behind the production if you are not willing to understand. Clearly you are not. It is clear you dont like black metal, why even bother to understand it? If you dislike it so much then why talk about it?

Atmosphere comes with making the music, which is based upon ideals. Thats where the real emphasis is, the ideals which are best portrayed through lyrical /musical imagery. Also, they are greatly portrayed through the created atmosphere. Which I would say is a by-product of making that type of music. It is however a necessity.

I said aim to stop it, those that are clones are generally unaccepted by the elites anyway. Notice they dont accept Cof, Dimmu et al as Black Metal. It hasnt exactly failed in the sense they cant stop people copying the style. But they can disacknowledge their existance as being black metal. Which causes lots of arguments.

 

[[0hr]Sunlapse]

I also think that a "clean" production would make the album sterile and lifeless. The same goes for Darkthrone's "Transilvanian Hunger". A better production would be ridiculous.

When I see people wanting to hear TH with a "good" production, I'm tempted to say that they might as well listen to a completely different album. TH's music and production is inseparable. You cannot just go and remaster an album like these - with a "better" production, TH would be a completely different album, and also a much weaker one.

And oh, the same goes for Ulver's "Nattens Madrigal".

a lot of people tell me this, but misunderstand me.... a "clean" production wouldnt fit, theres different levels of "bad" production that can be used. like I said TH or ITNE with a production like Dissection's SOTLB would be perfect for me.... and its by no means a "clean" or "polished" production

 

[Warlord Of Death]

This ninja screwhead must not understand the mentality of Black Metal. Regressive music, and demo-like production values are what make the bands sound so nihilistic, cold and calculating while still maintaining the "kvlt"-ness in the music.

Without it TH era Darkthrone would sound like shit, since the mid-range is so high the guitar would sound similar to something you'd hear on a country cd as far as tone went. BM is not pop music, and i would despise any band that start utlizing it it doesn't fit the music.

BM doesn't need clarity in production, and i'm tired of the Dimmu Borgir, Emperor and CoF debate though they use clean poppy production the music isn't BM and is generally trite, boring, and not as interesting as say Besatt's or Burzum's.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Dickhead is a subjective term.

Isn't it somebody with a penis on their head? Surely objective.

 

[polarity]

I said aim to stop it, those that are clones are generally unaccepted by the elites anyway. Notice they dont accept Cof, Dimmu et al as Black Metal. It hasnt exactly failed in the sense they cant stop people copying the style. But they can disacknowledge their existance as being black metal. Which causes lots of arguments.

I wouldn't consider CoF and Dimmu "clone bands," as they aren't even black metal. There are tons of actual black metal bands that do absolutely nothing original.

 

[Transilvanian Scotsman]

Isn't it somebody with a penis on their head? Surely objective.

Thanks for pointing that out Mr Pedanticman.
How many 'literal' dickheads do you know?
*waits for someone to do a crappy photoshop editing job*

@ polarity.
Cof have always to pass themselves off as BM? As have Dimmu I'm sure (infact, know). Perhaps not cloning directly, but definitely taking some of the techniques/ideas used. Dimmu's older stuff is closer to BM. Maybe my cloning point isnt so strong... but they have definitely taken some of the good techniques and made them very popular. Take note of a more approachable production.
Whether Dimmu, Cof is BM is a little bit beside the point for this topic. Nothing is perfect, As I agree with you some bands that do fit the BM tag well are not necessarily worthwhile.

 

[Ginja_Ninja]

There are tons of actual black metal bands that do absolutely nothing original.

couldn't agree more!

i never said black metal should be all well oiled and produced, i think raw/bad productions are actually good when utilized on different levels. but the problem is, what polarity said, black metal bands that do absolutely nothing original yet they're black metal just because they're darkthrone ripp offs, hiding behind the "gaythenburger shittalk"

again, i love underground black metal, but this "underground" mentality has to go away, just read that guy's signature (the one with catfish on his avatar)

 

[MURAI]

Did you record it in the early 90's too? :Smug:

Fool.




As far as ItNE goes, I put forward the notion that if you can't hear what's going on there you should just forget about black metal and go back to the nu-metal/"metalcore" you were listening to 6 months ago. The atmosphere created on that album is unmatchable.

Alright.. I never liked black metal that much anyway with the exception of a few of them like Mayhem and Emperor but. I like some metalcore but not all of it. Metalcore has some massive posers like Avenged Sevenfold for example..

 

[Demiurge]

I think he thinks you dislike early Emperor for a reason other than just plain not liking it.

You should remind SculptedCold that you're GoD, not Demiurge.

I can really imagine this guy awake in bed, staring at the ceiling for hours, mumbling "I hate Demiurge, I hate Demiurge, I hate Demiurge..."

A.nick is the incarnation of irony, I can appreciate that.

 

[Chopstick up the Peehole]

'sup Demiurge? Totally brootal swastika avatar dude!!

 

[Slayed Necros]

'sup Demiurge? Totally brootal swastika avatar dude!!

I'm sure he's ridiculed and hurt after reading your harmful message.

 

[Episteme]

heh

 

[Chopstick up the Peehole]

I'm sure he's ridiculed and hurt after reading your harmful message.

Me too.