Would it be better if drugs were legalized?

[razoredge]

What would that be, just saying OK everyone do drugs, corporate America and the government are now your new drug dealers ?

As for the gang nonsence in the cities. Everyone knows who they are, everyone including the cops knows whos playing the game. Yet our laws require evidence, how silly. Does someone really think you can get anywhere with that mind set by laying on the sugar diplomacy ? Fight fire with fire, give what is has been weilded, draw the line in the sand and say "ok... do you still want to dance ? well then lets boogie !"

 

[razoredge]

Your completely black & white alarmist viewpoints regarding this issue are so ridiculous that I can barely be bothered responding tbh. You haven't shown me one example of how the current drugs policy is working, or how it could be bettered. You make fanciful exaggerated predictions that belong in a scare campaign from the 50s ("imagine once the evil corporations get hold of this and start feeding drugs to the masses via advertising!!), ("all criminals will be thrown back into society and JUST THINK of what they'll revert to!!). You suggest such solutions as rushing the military into urban areas to start shooting people who may be involved in the drug trade, without even a second thought about the utter devastation and anarchy that would be caused. You suggest that the current situation is actually a good form of population control (!?). I'm not for a moment saying there is an easy solution package, and I'm certainly not suggesting total unrestricted legality. I'm suggesting some form of decriminalisation and new laws and restrictions. Have a think about that for a second before your next tirade of fear campaignery, PLEASE.

Fear is the ONLY deterrent but I guess your one that thinks normal civilians fear of the drug business is more appropriate and... what the hell... lets just give in and give the druggies their way.

Brilliant Watson

dont be alarmed, its the way mankind survived the previous 18 centuries and prior. This new sugar coated diplomacy is the new alarmists ideal. "Oh we cant do that, those people have feelings too"... Oh really ? Fruitful that has been

 

[Einherjar86]

razor, your plan is a straight path to left-wing extremism. For being so supportive of individual thought you encourage a lot of government control. Can't you see that your thoughts are completely contradictory? If we allow ourselves to be governed by fear then we set ourselves up to be manipulated and taken advantage of.

 

[Vimana]

Razor, I think you would love totalitarianism. If they think someone is involved in drugs, they kill them.

 

[razoredge]

razor, your plan is a straight path to left-wing extremism. For being so supportive of individual thought you encourage a lot of government control. Can't you see that your thoughts are completely contradictory? If we allow ourselves to be governed by fear then we set ourselves up to be manipulated and taken advantage of.

Maybe, I wouldnt know. Extreme problems call for extreme action. What is all that gang crap in the cities, right wing extremism ? I do support government control and take charge position when it comes to wrongs against its citizens. I fail to see how this transforms into mind control or "government by fear". I'm not seeing you appling independent thought there, rather allowing yourself to take one measure and applying to some opposite unrelated end of the spectrum. Irradication of a problemed source is hardly gonna put fear into the minds of decent citizens who have independent thought and dont see bringing full scale war to drug lords as some infringment on their personal rights. In fact currently it is quite the opposite as everyone lives in fear of drug lords and street gangs, or if they can get their children through life without becoming druggies or involved in this fucked up urban culture that has spred to every town in the country.

Watch some informational shows on the jail system in the States. One that goes into depth about the brain fuction of those incarcerated. These are the people toenail suggests legalization is better than " More problems than jails full of drug users, dealers and people locked away for drug related crimes? " How totally nieve, so I suppose a country with streets full of addicts and shelves stocked by corporate dealers is one step away from heaven. There are no jails full of drug "users" BTW, alot more involved than simply being a innocent "drug user". I look at those people in jail and think it would be great if they were dead. They are sucking off our tax money, before they are in jail and even more after, fuck them. Our criminal justice system is sucking off our tax money playing games with these brain dead idiots, our law enforcement departments are sucking off our tax money playing the game with these people, hands tied behind their back, fuck those people. In the grand scheme of things not too many would have to die, comparitively before others got a clue and if not, no big deal, its a self sprawling population anyhow that needs a predator.

Drastic ? more drastic than the tactics of those involved ? More drastic than the idea of legalized drug use and sale ? Yarite!

You want to find the drugs, you go find the drugs, someone wants to resist and they risk being killed.

The truth of the entire matter is this country is laden with a large population no one knows what to do with. So our government toys around with them and everyone is entertained. I just dont have the patience for such nonsence, decent people pay the price as our governments "war on crime" gives us highways full of traffic cops, preying on our incomes and business as usual carries on in the high crime areas. Splendid, at least we arent hurting the feelings of depraved or is it deprived people... or getting involved in "mind control"

 

[Blowtus]

Razor is the only one capable of independent thought, so as long as the laws suit him there is no reduction of it.

 

[Einherjar86]

Maybe, I wouldnt know. Extreme problems call for extreme action. What is all that gang crap in the cities, right wing extremism ? I do support government control and take charge position when it comes to wrongs against its citizens. I fail to see how this transforms into mind control or "government by fear". I'm not seeing you appling independent thought there, rather allowing yourself to take one measure and applying to some opposite unrelated end of the spectrum. Irradication of a problemed source is hardly gonna put fear into the minds of decent citizens who have independent thought and dont see bringing full scale war to drug lords as some infringment on their personal rights. In fact currently it is quite the opposite as everyone lives in fear of drug lords and street gangs, or if they can get their children through life without becoming druggies or involved in this fucked up urban culture that has spred to every town in the country.

Watch some informational shows on the jail system in the States. One that goes into depth about the brain fuction of those incarcerated. These are the people toenail suggests legalization is better than " More problems than jails full of drug users, dealers and people locked away for drug related crimes? " How totally nieve, so I suppose a country with streets full of addicts and shelves stocked by corporate dealers is one step away from heaven. There are no jails full of drug "users" BTW, alot more involved than simply being a innocent "drug user". I look at those people in jail and think it would be great if they were dead. They are sucking off our tax money, before they are in jail and even more after, fuck them. Our criminal justice system is sucking off our tax money playing games with these brain dead idiots, our law enforcement departments are sucking off our tax money playing the game with these people, hands tied behind their back, fuck those people. In the grand scheme of things not too many would have to die, comparitively before others got a clue and if not, no big deal, its a self sprawling population anyhow that needs a predator.

Drastic ? more drastic than the tactics of those involved ? More drastic than the idea of legalized drug use and sale ? Yarite!

You want to find the drugs, you go find the drugs, someone wants to resist and they risk being killed.

The truth of the entire matter is this country is laden with a large population no one knows what to do with. So our government toys around with them and everyone is entertained. I just dont have the patience for such nonsence, decent people pay the price as our governments "war on crime" gives us highways full of traffic cops, preying on our incomes and business as usual carries on in the high crime areas. Splendid, at least we arent hurting the feelings of depraved or is it deprived people... or getting involved in "mind control"

I am applying independent thought, razor. I'm saying "Let me believe what I want to about drugs, and use them how I see fit." I don't want the government controlling what I do and enforcing it with violence. That's the opposite of independent thought.

 

[razoredge]

So the urban independent thought is to run the streets dealing drugs, shooting, stabbing, talking smack and I dont believe the government should be trying to control that either, after all... no harm done

ultimately we need to eliminate government, laws, regulations, faith beliefs, morals, codes, ethics, rules and man made words because they all illustrate fearful repressive mind control

 

[Einherjar86]

You have the option to avoid that lifestyle and separate yourself from such occurences. Crime will continue either way. It's your choice whether to engage in it or avoid it.

 

[razoredge]

Yet you condone the idea of corporations and government subscribing to the capitalization of such criminal activity.

Havent you had any people in your life yet that you have seen affected ?

It amazes me that what people seem most concerned with is whos in jail and that legalization somehow will eliminate crime and gang warfare in the cities. Myself I see a picture of total chaos, far exceeding that of the current level.

My answer for this has been adressed in nearly every other topic. We need something for these urban areas to make a decent honest living from. AND we need population control. We need to place emphisis on the outcome of choices such as giving birth every 1.5 years from the time one is 15, not reward it with a larger welfare checks. As they make more babies they know damn well will become trapped in the gang scene of the cities. Not one bit of it is impressive what so ever, in fact I believe it is the shame of the human race. **I shouldnt isolate this phenom to the cities, I've seen plenty of it in rural areas as well, its just lower duty but equally as alarming on a social standard.

 

[Einherjar86]

Yet you condone the idea of corporations and government subscribing to the capitalization of such criminal activity.

Havent you had any people in your life yet that you have seen affected ?

Explain this to me. How do I condone such things?

I have no friends who have drug problems, if that's what you mean. I have mostly responsible friends, I like to think. However, if one or more of my friends did have a drug problem, I would do the following: speak with them about it, and try to convince them that they might need some help. Beyond that, there's nothing I can do. Each human being is responsible to himself or herself. If they don't want to help themselves, then there's nothing that I can do.

 

[Vimana]

Making something illegal does make it a lot more tempting for people. The thing about humans is when a boundary is set on something, they have a desire to test the boundary to see why it is there. Tribes in rainforests have easy access to hallucinogens but you don't see huge drug problems there.

 

[razoredge]

Explain this to me. How do I condone such things?

I have no friends who have drug problems, if that's what you mean. I have mostly responsible friends, I like to think. However, if one or more of my friends did have a drug problem, I would do the following: speak with them about it, and try to convince them that they might need some help. Beyond that, there's nothing I can do. Each human being is responsible to himself or herself. If they don't want to help themselves, then there's nothing that I can do.

Thats good that you have not bore first hand witness, but you shouldnt think it doesnt exist or that many good, responsible, fair, decent, worth while people have not or do not get caught by such things during their cut free, experimental, superman/superwoman days. I have seen plenty, as well as with alcohol. As I said months and pages ago, some people are more prone to addiction, or had semi tramatic situations they seek relief from (something I have seen you imply an awareness of in other situations) than there is those of strong will that believe they are in control and tuff enough to survive, the not me attitude or superman as I implied. Yet no one is tuff enough to fight chemical addiction once they have crossed the fine line. This shit happens. Youth is often full of live for today and "I'll deal with that problem when I have to" attitude, totally natural actually and possibly a worse trap for the strong willed as they have had the ability to conquer most anything during their minimal life span... but those damn chemicals "dont lie" as Clapton put it. Look at your great musicians that have fallen ! We have seen an attitude here that implies, "only the worthless have fallen", in my life I have seen proof otherwise.

I have also been down the road of "having the talk", once again you are dealing with chemicals, individuals and their reactions to such, their underlying motivations, and their blind side. NONE of its easy, when you dance with the devil. I'm not making any of this up or offering my independent interpretation, this shit is fact.

FnF - you dont see this abuse in primitive cultures by my personal evaluation because abusers would be slapped senseless by their elders, societies I should add that have respect for their cultures, elders and tradition, not societies where the statis quo of youth is to rebel against all. Shunning from elders is not far from the attitude I have expressed that got everyone up in arms. Only it would happen in those cultures before the fact, not decades after, so obviously we are dealing with two different extremes.

We are also dealing with two different cultures, those you speak of dont have time for that crap, such as Native American culture where it was a special ritual practice, not a daily or Friday/Saturday night on the town. Not a youthful, its cool to get fucked up ordeal such as has been statis quo in "western" culture.

Then, I suppose I should go on to say you would also be dealing with a different kind of drug, less addictive than chemically altered substances. As I sit here and say that, I ponder the opium problem that existed in this country during the legal years and wonder if it existed in Asian countries. Opium and its by-products such as herion are extremely addictive and according to users is hard to resists its euphoric state long enough to not become addicted.

Then , I should go on to say... AGAIN... when drugs were legal in this country a serious problem developed. This problem was minimal for decades after illegalization, until the drug culture became prominate in youth during the late sixties. The fault lies in the fact that it was allowed to escalate for 4 decades now, it was out of control and in every community in less than one decade. Then it just became more excepted amounst care free, experimental youth and grew into the problem that it is today.

 

[Blowtus]

Drug use is only a problem for a specific view of the world. Not everyone shares that view.

 

[razoredge]

as is murder, rape, stealing, fire, vandalism, racism, wife beating, child beating, child molestation, neglect, hard work, decent pay, health care, living conditions, movie rating, speed limits, pot holes, loop holes, spelling, grammer, immigration, smog, government, song lyrics and crayon colors

yeah... so ?

 

[Satanstoenail]

Razor, we already know that drugs are bad mmmkay. I've had friends end up in psych wards, I've watched friends waste great portions of their lives doing fuck all but getting high, I've known people who have ended up junkies and fucked everyone they know over and ended up in jail and worse. I don't think drugs should be readily available, and I certainly don't think drugs should be advertised as any sort of good thing. But I definitely think that that change is needed because, and I'll say this again, since you keep ignoring it over and over again; The current situation isn't working.

Harsher penalties, zero tolerance, blah blah blah, none of it makes any difference. People will take and sell drugs regardless, and suggestions such as sending the military in to shoot people is never going to happen in the society in which we live, so perhaps your time would be better spent trying to think of better and more realistic ways to deal with this problem. Decriminalisation doesn't have to mean the bad guys won, and it doesn't mean the evil corporations you speak of will end up pushing drugs to the masses. It could potentially mean that ordinary people would have access to safer drugs without having to deal with criminals, without having to fear the law every time they smoke a joint, and it would open the door to much better education. It could potentially mean that some of the power could be taken away from criminals.

 

[zacmenta]

The reason people take drugs is because they feel better while under the effects of said drugs than they do when completely sober. The world, for them, is a better place when it is harder to perceive clearly, when the harsh realities are dulled by weed, alchohol, or whatever else.

Drugs are a symptom of society's problems, not a cause.

 

[Blowtus]

as is murder, rape, stealing, fire, vandalism, racism, wife beating, child beating, child molestation, neglect, hard work, decent pay, health care, living conditions, movie rating, speed limits, pot holes, loop holes, spelling, grammer, immigration, smog, government, song lyrics and crayon colors

So you post like its the natural order of the world that drugs are bad, not just your independent thought at work.

 

[Einherjar86]

razor's independent thought is that we wants others to think for him.

 

[razoredge]

Razor, we already know that drugs are bad mmmkay. I've had friends end up in psych wards, I've watched friends waste great portions of their lives doing fuck all but getting high, I've known people who have ended up junkies and fucked everyone they know over and ended up in jail and worse. I don't think drugs should be readily available, and I certainly don't think drugs should be advertised as any sort of good thing. But I definitely think that that change is needed because, and I'll say this again, since you keep ignoring it over and over again; The current situation isn't working.

Harsher penalties, zero tolerance, blah blah blah, none of it makes any difference. People will take and sell drugs regardless, and suggestions such as sending the military in to shoot people is never going to happen in the society in which we live, so perhaps your time would be better spent trying to think of better and more realistic ways to deal with this problem. Decriminalisation doesn't have to mean the bad guys won, and it doesn't mean the evil corporations you speak of will end up pushing drugs to the masses. It could potentially mean that ordinary people would have access to safer drugs without having to deal with criminals, without having to fear the law every time they smoke a joint, and it would open the door to much better education. It could potentially mean that some of the power could be taken away from criminals.

Yes you are absolutely correct. But little will change with the underground problem. It will still exist for cheap non taxed drugs, that culture and trafficing will remain intact and our government and law enforcement will still be full time trying to locate illegal drugs... which many dont reaalize will still be illegal even if there is legal drugs available for the better class of citizens. Then as generation pass it will become more acceptable to walk into some store and buy ones weekend or dayly fuck up. Drugs will become as prominate as alcohol, which no one can deny is a problem for many addictive types or those looking for relief at the end of the day.

I agree 100% about weed and weed alone. Im not sure whats going on in Austrailia but here in the US drug screening is done for everything, work, college, licences, it has become a giant business with many "professionals" making a fortune identifing the dope smokers, the easy target who may have only smoked a little with friends on Sunday afternoon. After all we are into 4 decades where its common for low inome blue collar workers to smoke (amounst others). Apparently it pissed some people off that most of us wound up being hard working contributing pieces of society so we have been singled out for the cull system recently put in place by college grads who probably snorted more cocaine than we could possibly afford. My county's DA was a big time coke head as were his upity friends, not to mention the massive drinking that went on as well, hes a blue blood from a prominate family so he easily got elected. My concern is just weed, only due to the fact of this recent drug screening, otherwize I'd rather it stayed illegal so the gov couldnt get their hands on sales tax and sin taxes which they would surely apply. Then nearly everyone involved grows their own anyhow and that would surely still be illegal. Myself I dont care about the other drugs, been there done that and quickly evaluated their worth as null, the bad far outweighed the good.

This thing with crack totally pisses me off and I personally would like to be able to bust some heads over the stuff, cocaine was bad enough as people squandered their paychecks and slowly became worthless to their vice.

You can say all you want but if you dont think corporations would take the ball and run straight to the capitalistic toilet with mind altering drugs I believe you are greivously mistaken. As it stand now they cant possibly advertise and push hard enough for all the various "anti-depressants" floating around. Here in the US we are into decades of Doctor prescribed drug abuse. We have had households loaded with closet housewife junkies, quite pathetic, frankly. Mothers little pill was not a fancy word play for a pop song, it was a reality. then begins the mindset that we need this pill for this and that pill for that... again I question how mankind ever survied the milliniums without this corporate/industry bullshit.

As for the military being used to take action, I dont really propose laying down a line of unprejudice fire, only useing the volumn of available men to do the search and seige. Those that wish to engage in aggressive fire can die. Im appauled that we allow gangs to run unchecked, when they are so easily identifiable and proud of themselves. A harsh deterrent needs to be put in place, if the population is lowered so be it, that ball will be in their hands. Either get a clue or pay the price, the party and free running of the streets is over. Yet no, here we sit for decades now playing cat and mouse as the problem grows at an alarming pace, so as not to hurt the feelings of family members who kids are violent, rotten to the bone, theiven, rapeing drug dealers. As if they hold presidence over the family hurt by members who could not resist and got caught in the realm of addiction.

THe of course I mentioned what needs to be done to slowly bring the root of the urban problem under control but that has been conviently ignored, here in this topic and by our society for far too long.

Blowtus - No drugs are great, we need more varities and need to use them regularly... proven fact