Wrath of the Norsemen!

Norsemaiden

barbarian
Dec 12, 2005
1,903
6
38
Britain
Everyone has heard of how the Viking invaders came to England, burning churches, marauding, etc. But few people know of the provocation that brought about this invasion.
Here is a very brief summary of events, so we can see things in their proper context.
1. 9AD Roman emperor Augustus orders African and Asian legions into Germania to rape and pollute the barbarian race and turn them into mixed race slaves.
2. General Arminius (also known as Herman) a barbarian who had joined the Roman army , rebelled and led the Cherusci (from whom are decended - the Saxons then the Anglo-Saxons - English) to trap and wipe out the multi-racial Roman rapist hoarde in the Teutoburg forest (Detmold, Paderborn).
3. Defeated Romans are tortured, beheaded, disembowelled, their entrails and skulls nailed to trees. (origin of Yuletree decorations!).
4. A great tree grows on the site of the victory. The Tree of Thor.
5. Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius wages war for 17 years (3xWWII) to defeat the barbarians, and fails. (Despite what the film Gladiator suggests).
6. Roman emperor Probus offers gold coins for every head and blue eye torn from barbarian man, woman and child. (Chronicled in Gibbon's "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire".)
7. AD791 Emperor Charlemagne executes 2000 Saxon cheiftans after 25 years of genocidal war against the north European barbarians. Threatens extermination of the barbarians unless they convert to Christianity. The last Saxon cheif promises, "You can kill us all but then you will have to answer to our cousins across the Baltic and they are fiercer than us." The Tree of Thor is cut down.
8. AD792 The Viking age begins. Ivar the Boneless (he had brittle bone disease, but was chosen for his skill in chess) orders a holy war to exterminate Christianity and de-Christianise England: churches burned, Christians enslaved. (Reports of rape are all accounts written by the Christian church and thus unreliable).
9. Gradually Norse kings converted by "magician" missionaries and fear of continental Christianity.
10. Remaining Odinists exiled to Iceland and Vinland, or forced to swallow adders.
I hope you find this interesting!
 
Norsemaiden said:
Everyone has heard of how the Viking invaders came to England, burning churches, marauding, etc. But few people know of the provocation that brought about this invasion.
Here is a very brief summary of events, so we can see things in their proper context.
1. 9AD Roman emperor Augustus orders African and Asian legions into Germania to rape and pollute the barbarian race and turn them into mixed race slaves.
2. General Arminius (also known as Herman) a barbarian who had joined the Roman army , rebelled and led the Cherusci (from whom are decended - the Saxons then the Anglo-Saxons - English) to trap and wipe out the multi-racial Roman rapist hoarde in the Teutoburg forest (Detmold, Paderborn).
3. Defeated Romans are tortured, beheaded, disembowelled, their entrails and skulls nailed to trees. (origin of Yuletree decorations!).
4. A great tree grows on the site of the victory. The Tree of Thor.
5. Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius wages war for 17 years (3xWWII) to defeat the barbarians, and fails. (Despite what the film Gladiator suggests).
6. Roman emperor Probus offers gold coins for every head and blue eye torn from barbarian man, woman and child. (Chronicled in Gibbon's "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire".)
7. AD791 Emperor Charlemagne executes 2000 Saxon cheiftans after 25 years of genocidal war against the north European barbarians. Threatens extermination of the barbarians unless they convert to Christianity. The last Saxon cheif promises, "You can kill us all but then you will have to answer to our cousins across the Baltic and they are fiercer than us." The Tree of Thor is cut down.
8. AD792 The Viking age begins. Ivar the Boneless (he had brittle bone disease, but was chosen for his skill in chess) orders a holy war to exterminate Christianity and de-Christianise England: churches burned, Christians enslaved. (Reports of rape are all accounts written by the Christian church and thus unreliable).
9. Gradually Norse kings converted by "magician" missionaries and fear of continental Christianity.
10. Remaining Odinists exiled to Iceland and Vinland, or forced to swallow adders.
I hope you find this interesting!

As a former history major, I think you have overestimated the role of the Romans, and underestimated the role of geography and economics. First, as for racial mixing, the ROmans successfully used this tactic alongside acceptance of Roman culture with all the lands they conquered, or annexed, or were given. And frankly, seeing that the Roman Empire was more advanced, and had a higher standard of living of any time up till the end of the 19th century, I dont see what was so bad about mixing with a few Romans.

Second, geography, which is contigent upon economics is another huge reason for the vikings. Those far northern peoples were untouched by Christianity, and Roman civilization due to the fact they lived so far away. Hence, the places where they lived (which would have been warmer than today) were still not fertile lands, forcing the vikings to find lands that could support them. In essence, from what I was told at a Norwegian VIking museum that displays a cool viking ship they found almost in tact, there were too many vikings for the land to support, thus the excess were sent off to pillage and raid and colonize.

I think you have also underestimated the total effect of your Norsemen as well. They really created the first, European trading system ( and were perhaps the first true capitalists) since the Romans. By that, I mean, they went everywhere in Europe--from founding Kiev, to controlling Sicily. And once they settled down, they created somewhat intricate trading paths and cities, and systems. Hence, the fact they were kind of like modern capitalists: they raided other countries, set up governments or trading posts, and began trading with them. In fact, Old Oswald Spengler calls Anglo-Saxon Capitalism ( which is also AMerican capitalism) a Viking offshoot.
 
Pretty much agree with most of what you said there Speed, even though you are taking the Roman side. What I wrote was very brief summary so obviously a lot was left out.
What you have to ask yourself though is: why wouldn't the barbarians want to be part of the Roman empire - with its sewer systems, irrigation, technology, aquaducts, spices, exotic food, etc. Why not? Unless there was something about Roman civilisation that grated with them so much that they would rather die....
Different values. Sexual depravity, dishonesty and falsehoods - what the Romans thought of as a wonderful civilisation was seen by the barbarians as a conspiracy of the weak. A clash of species, metaphorically speaking.
 
Øjeblikket said:
even though I think you meant to use the word contingent, I still have no idea what you're trying to say.

I agree, wrong word order. It should be the other way around: Economics (at least in that period) was contingent or depended upon Geography. Yes, and I said in tact, instead of intact. Stream of consciousness typing here. Sorry all.
 
Norsemaiden said:
Pretty much agree with most of what you said there Speed, even though you are taking the Roman side. What I wrote was very brief summary so obviously a lot was left out.
What you have to ask yourself though is: why wouldn't the barbarians want to be part of the Roman empire - with its sewer systems, irrigation, technology, aquaducts, spices, exotic food, etc. Why not? Unless there was something about Roman civilisation that grated with them so much that they would rather die....
Different values. Sexual depravity, dishonesty and falsehoods - what the Romans thought of as a wonderful civilisation was seen by the barbarians as a conspiracy of the weak. A clash of species, metaphorically speaking.

Ah, but so many barbarians did become part of the Roman Empire. By the 200's the Roman army was essentially entirely made up of Germans, Gauls, Goths, Africans,(Northern Africans or Mediterranean in race:like Septimus Severus or even Saint Augustine) And as you yourself admit, Arminius himself, fought for the Romans.

Furthermore, I think perhaps the answer to your question could be the fact that the Germans, Scandinavians, and British Celts, were by and large primitive peoples: clanish, poor organization and property rights, little to no education, the Celts run by their priests. Its no surprise when they took over the Western Empire, that the world descended into one thousand years of Dark Ages.
 
Just out of curiosity Speed, I'd like to know your view on two statements.
Firstly, does it seem to be, historically speaking, that for every year of peace a society has, it is paid for with ten years of war?
Secondly, has every civilization in history followed a path of advancing to a peak, then degenerating, and then being conquered by primitive people?
I think this a fair assessment myself.
(I've got to go just now, but I'll reply tomorrow if you or anyone else has answered!):wave:
 
I'm reading The Last Apocalypse right now. Has anyone else read it? I think it's great, so far. Deals with what it was like in Europe at the year 1000 AD, focusing mainly on the Vikings and how Christianity took over their Pagan beliefs, and then the rest of Europe.

It also talks a bit about Viking women, who as we all know, were incredible. I wish there were more books/information about them.
 
Krigloch the Furious said:
<----- is very proud of his Northern European heritage (Germany, Poland, Lithuania) :kickass:

Ha, wow so many people on this forum seem to have nothing more to be proud of than the fact that they have norse heritage. I'm Danish, Swedish and German but I really don't think that makes me a better person lol. :loco:
 
Norsemaiden said:
Just out of curiosity Speed, I'd like to know your view on two statements.
Firstly, does it seem to be, historically speaking, that for every year of peace a society has, it is paid for with ten years of war?
Secondly, has every civilisation in history followed a path of advancing to a peak, then degenerating, and then being conquered by primitive people?
I think this a fair assessment myself.
(I've got to go just now, but I'll reply tomorrow if you or anyone else has answered!):wave:

Those are some good questions. With No.2, I think you are on to something. Now that I think about it, this has always been the case. We are in the process of this right now. Our society has peaked; the Indians and Chinese are laying higher quality broadband that is 100 times the capacity of ours; they graduate so many more times the engineers and scientists; their leaders are technologically knowledgable and have engineering degrees not lawyers of some political ideology; they work incredibly hard; they are willing to do things for less money; and they basically are taking our jobs and ideas away from us with technology and systems we created. You know, I am a really big fan of Spengler ( I am sure I have mentioned this before), and his book The Decline of the West, and especially Man as Technics, esentially predict this happening to the west. His basic gripe was the fact we started telling these primitive peoples the how--in the past we may have installed technology etc, but we kept the how to do it, to ourselves. Now, in the west, we have trained them how to do it. If the Indians and Chinese ever dramtically change their education system to favor creativity, we are in real trouble.

As for no 1, when has this country ever been in peace? We are always fighting somewhere. There have been like 150 or more ( I cant remember) armed incursions into foreign territories by the United States in the last 50 years.
 
Øjeblikket said:
nah, methinks maybe you're too fast. ;)

Haha. I am a speed poster. Seriously though, threads need a grammer/spelling check on them like Word. I make mistakes, and alot of people write stuff that would be covered in color; hopefully embarrasing them into not posting.
 
speed said:
Furthermore, I think perhaps the answer to your question could be the fact that the Germans, Scandinavians, and British Celts, were by and large primitive peoples: clanish, poor organization and property rights, little to no education,


were Scandinavians not the producers of rather tasty poetry?
 
After a thousand years of oppression,
let the berserks rise again.
Let the world hear these words once more:
"Save us, oh Lord, from the wrath of the Norsemen!"

- Johan Hegg


'Nuff said.
 
I'm not a big fan of poetry, but of the few poems I actually like my favorite was written (said, actually) by a Norse poet around 900 AD.

"Olaf's broad axe of shining steel
For the shy wolf left many a meal
The ill-shaped Saxon corpses lay
Heaped up, The witch-wife's horses prey
She rides by night: at pools of blood
Where Friesland men in daylight stood,
Her horses slake their thirst and fly
On to the field where Flemings lie.
The raven-friend in Odinn's dress --
Olaf, who foes can well repress,
Left Flemish flesh for many a meal
With his broad axe of shining steel.
 
VikingSF:)
I hope some of us can stay barbaric so maybe we can survive while the Western Civilization crumbles!
Susperia, I intend to look at the book you suggested.