Kenneth R.
Cináed
i say the same thing about 'hypocritical christians'.annt said:
well said. i have friends in the middle east and they seem to be as nice a people as any.
Yes we want some too
- Thread starter A. Iverson
- Start date
well said. i have friends in the middle east and they seem to be as nice a people as any.
frankly i gotta say that i am surprised (pleasantly!) by the reaction of u people to the thread,, i honestly didnt expect such open-mindedness as i had started a similar thread in a deathmetal forum somewhere demanding attention in the middle east, and all the replies i got were offensive like, 'muslims go to hell' , 'camel-humpers suck my dick' ....etc. Not a good sign!
These are pictures of my friends and i. we all have bands, and thanks to ME we're all including opeth songs in our list whenever we perform.
http://www.rock4ever.net/main/main.php?id=4
These are pictures of my friends and i. we all have bands, and thanks to ME we're all including opeth songs in our list whenever we perform.
http://www.rock4ever.net/main/main.php?id=4
Nitronium Blood
UM BOARDS' JESTER
But only once to Perth.Saphira said:Yeah! Even though they've been here twice already
Which makes me want to kill everyone.
zortz
Member
Unfortunately, some people have stereotypes of Arabs and Muslims as terrorists intolerant of anything but their own particular flavor of Islam, who will gleefully kill any 'infidels' who don't subscribe to their beliefs and world view. I think most people realize that people like this are a minority in the Arab world.
The western media does tend to reinforce these stereotypes with their selection of story coverage, but I don't think it's a purposeful thing. Many conspiracy theory types would probably argue with me, but I don't believe there's an agenda in the western media to paint a negative picture of Arabs or Muslims. In fact, just about all coverage I've seen is careful to note that the Islamic terrorists committing attrocities around the world are a minority, and that the vast majority of other muslims are horrified by and denounce these acts.
Unfortunately, it's rarely the 'good news' that's reported. The 'good news' just doesn't sell, so isn't often reported. And when there are endless reports of bombings and other acts of terror, such as todays cowardly suicide bombing in Iraq that killed 150+ civilians who were simply gathered to find work, some people form a negative impression.
So, given this situation, it's somewhat understandable that western people, who feel they are obvoius targets for murder, kidnapping, etc, might be a little frightened of visiting countries in the middle east. Even countries where it's known to be relatively safe for westerners to visit.
The western media does tend to reinforce these stereotypes with their selection of story coverage, but I don't think it's a purposeful thing. Many conspiracy theory types would probably argue with me, but I don't believe there's an agenda in the western media to paint a negative picture of Arabs or Muslims. In fact, just about all coverage I've seen is careful to note that the Islamic terrorists committing attrocities around the world are a minority, and that the vast majority of other muslims are horrified by and denounce these acts.
Unfortunately, it's rarely the 'good news' that's reported. The 'good news' just doesn't sell, so isn't often reported. And when there are endless reports of bombings and other acts of terror, such as todays cowardly suicide bombing in Iraq that killed 150+ civilians who were simply gathered to find work, some people form a negative impression.
So, given this situation, it's somewhat understandable that western people, who feel they are obvoius targets for murder, kidnapping, etc, might be a little frightened of visiting countries in the middle east. Even countries where it's known to be relatively safe for westerners to visit.
zortz... i have to disagree with you wholeheartedly
you say that the media tries to paint a balanced picture. but i remember the news reports for the oklahoma bombings and september 11th blaming arabs before anyone had a clue what was going on. for oklahoma, they were completely wrong. for september 11th, they were blaming palestinian groups left and right until they found out it was al-quaeda.
not to mention the creeps like bill o'rielly and nancy grace who go on tv and preach their conservative crap. fox news especially, is all about hating on the arabs and even the french.
as to the point of this topic, i agree that it would be nice to see metal bands in bahrain and the rest of the middle east. but i have some questions. what kind of metal scene is there in bahrain? could opeth book a venue? would they be able to get an audience? can they conveniently tour the middle east in a tour bus, like they can europe? do they stand to make an economic profit or a loss when touring the middle east? and when i say economic profit, i mean including the opportunity cost... they could probably make a lot more money playing in greece for four nights than they could playing as many nights in the middle east. finally, would they break even, or lose money overall?
i think the scene is the most important thing. i'm assuming here, but i feel like the people who book concerts and promote bands in bahrain wouldn't be as helpful to opeth as they should. and i know touring around in a bus is a bad idea, i've heard stories about people getting stopped in southern egypt by gunmen and robbed of everything.
finally, the government can act pretty conservatively. the matrix reloaded was banned in egypt, and so was the book 1001 night (arabian nights). all it takes is a few people looking at a band like opeth and saying SATANISTS and the government is likely to label them as such.
i think a band like opeth playing shows would be too much of a shock. it could lead to an incident where a bunch of crazy religious people stone them or something. and like i said, the promoters wouldn't know what to do.
the precedent needs to be set, by people like yourself, integrating heavy metal into the scene, and gradually getting people used to the idea of all out heavy metal being something that a lot of young people enjoy. it sounds like its happening in lebanon and syria... and probably bahrain too. i think people are heading in the right direction.
sorry if i've assumed too much, about bahrain not having a scene, by the way. i'm trying to say that its not just politics, and its up to the metal community over there to make itself recognizable. if you build it, he will come... that kind of thing.
-Ahmad
you say that the media tries to paint a balanced picture. but i remember the news reports for the oklahoma bombings and september 11th blaming arabs before anyone had a clue what was going on. for oklahoma, they were completely wrong. for september 11th, they were blaming palestinian groups left and right until they found out it was al-quaeda.
not to mention the creeps like bill o'rielly and nancy grace who go on tv and preach their conservative crap. fox news especially, is all about hating on the arabs and even the french.
as to the point of this topic, i agree that it would be nice to see metal bands in bahrain and the rest of the middle east. but i have some questions. what kind of metal scene is there in bahrain? could opeth book a venue? would they be able to get an audience? can they conveniently tour the middle east in a tour bus, like they can europe? do they stand to make an economic profit or a loss when touring the middle east? and when i say economic profit, i mean including the opportunity cost... they could probably make a lot more money playing in greece for four nights than they could playing as many nights in the middle east. finally, would they break even, or lose money overall?
i think the scene is the most important thing. i'm assuming here, but i feel like the people who book concerts and promote bands in bahrain wouldn't be as helpful to opeth as they should. and i know touring around in a bus is a bad idea, i've heard stories about people getting stopped in southern egypt by gunmen and robbed of everything.
finally, the government can act pretty conservatively. the matrix reloaded was banned in egypt, and so was the book 1001 night (arabian nights). all it takes is a few people looking at a band like opeth and saying SATANISTS and the government is likely to label them as such.
i think a band like opeth playing shows would be too much of a shock. it could lead to an incident where a bunch of crazy religious people stone them or something. and like i said, the promoters wouldn't know what to do.
the precedent needs to be set, by people like yourself, integrating heavy metal into the scene, and gradually getting people used to the idea of all out heavy metal being something that a lot of young people enjoy. it sounds like its happening in lebanon and syria... and probably bahrain too. i think people are heading in the right direction.
sorry if i've assumed too much, about bahrain not having a scene, by the way. i'm trying to say that its not just politics, and its up to the metal community over there to make itself recognizable. if you build it, he will come... that kind of thing.
-Ahmad
Nitronium Blood
UM BOARDS' JESTER
Nitronium Blood said:
Well, first of all it's "muslims" not "Islamians". I'm not an expert on the subject, but I think that the Qur'an says that people are only allowed to defend themselves when attacked. There are of course the extremists who can twist some of the things in said book to get an excuse for killing, but I believe they exist in every religion. "Killing the infidels" is a common stereotype spreaded in the media, I've noticed that it's far from truth, except for the leaders that use Islam as an excuse. Reminds me of, for example, George "God is on our side" W... But as I said, I'm not an expert and I don't have a real view on this subject, mainly because I live quite far away from the Islamic countries. The few muslims I know are anything but violent.
annt, i think you were missing the sarcasm there
but to add to you post, traditionally, muslims view christians and jews more like brothers or neighbors than enemies. their only enemies are supposed to be pagans and satanists, etc. at the time, Mohammad's main issue was against people who worshipped the moon god, etc.
one of the main things for muslims is to say "There are no gods except God". this refers to the same as that of christians and jews. killing them is without a doubt a sin. some people have definitely twisted things, and somehow use the idea that killing people in the west is equated to defending themselves against people who are trying to take islam away from them. i can begin to understand how, what i can't understand is how these people don't realize that their are better ways to stand up for your beliefs and protect your freedom. the us certainly did try to change a lot of countries' way of life during the cold war, but that's over now.
sadly, things have changed a lot, and islam is in its dark age. in earlier times, it was responsible for many, many good things, and muslims had a good conscience and a good sense of justice. when richard lionheart was captured during the crusades, he was not harmed, but rather sent back to england with gifts... probably because they did view him as a christian brother. nowadays, i think that compassion is hard to find. the middle east is troubled for many reasons. islamic extremism is only a small part of the picture, to be honest. people should look to the government more. and bush, is not the one who should be doing so, because he's proved himself on many occasions to be a terrible diplomat.
anyway, the topic should be opeth, but i feel like many people should hear what i have tto say. sorry about the ranting
i think if you took a cross section of the arab or muslim population, you'd see a lot of people who are just trying to get by, and care about their family more than anything else, a few really rich people who are enjoying their bmw's and having parties all the time, and a pretty small amount of extremist jerks.
but to add to you post, traditionally, muslims view christians and jews more like brothers or neighbors than enemies. their only enemies are supposed to be pagans and satanists, etc. at the time, Mohammad's main issue was against people who worshipped the moon god, etc.
one of the main things for muslims is to say "There are no gods except God". this refers to the same as that of christians and jews. killing them is without a doubt a sin. some people have definitely twisted things, and somehow use the idea that killing people in the west is equated to defending themselves against people who are trying to take islam away from them. i can begin to understand how, what i can't understand is how these people don't realize that their are better ways to stand up for your beliefs and protect your freedom. the us certainly did try to change a lot of countries' way of life during the cold war, but that's over now.
sadly, things have changed a lot, and islam is in its dark age. in earlier times, it was responsible for many, many good things, and muslims had a good conscience and a good sense of justice. when richard lionheart was captured during the crusades, he was not harmed, but rather sent back to england with gifts... probably because they did view him as a christian brother. nowadays, i think that compassion is hard to find. the middle east is troubled for many reasons. islamic extremism is only a small part of the picture, to be honest. people should look to the government more. and bush, is not the one who should be doing so, because he's proved himself on many occasions to be a terrible diplomat.
anyway, the topic should be opeth, but i feel like many people should hear what i have tto say. sorry about the ranting
i think if you took a cross section of the arab or muslim population, you'd see a lot of people who are just trying to get by, and care about their family more than anything else, a few really rich people who are enjoying their bmw's and having parties all the time, and a pretty small amount of extremist jerks.
thanks accolade for ur support
the metal scene here is pretty well developed, we have some great bands (see the link i posted earlier) and a great metal organization here in bahrain, the management behind this organization is responsible, desicive and quick-acting, we made the 1st site in support of rock/metal in arabic countries www.rock4ever.net and we hold little gigs every now and then. i remember the 1st time we held a gig the local newspapers were very suspicious, apparently they thought we were using the gig as a cover for satanic rituals or something ,, but we're pretty much accepted now. Ofcourse opeth could book a venue,, its been done before by many otheres including bryan adams, mel c, mikael jackson, limpbizkit, elton john. (slipknot and linkin park have been here too , but audience was limited to the US navi troops here in bahrain and their families so we couldnt go). I dont think it would be possible to tour the whole mid east region on a bus but its pretty easy to arrange that within the arabian gulf countries. Of course, economic profit wont be as much as wt they get touring europe or the US but im pretty certain they wont have any great losses.
. Maybe its just wishful thinking on my part but i really think opeth would have a reasonable chance of success in the mideast, or to be more specific,, in the arabian gulf. hope this dream becomes a reality
!
the metal scene here is pretty well developed, we have some great bands (see the link i posted earlier) and a great metal organization here in bahrain, the management behind this organization is responsible, desicive and quick-acting, we made the 1st site in support of rock/metal in arabic countries www.rock4ever.net and we hold little gigs every now and then. i remember the 1st time we held a gig the local newspapers were very suspicious, apparently they thought we were using the gig as a cover for satanic rituals or something ,, but we're pretty much accepted now. Ofcourse opeth could book a venue,, its been done before by many otheres including bryan adams, mel c, mikael jackson, limpbizkit, elton john. (slipknot and linkin park have been here too , but audience was limited to the US navi troops here in bahrain and their families so we couldnt go). I dont think it would be possible to tour the whole mid east region on a bus but its pretty easy to arrange that within the arabian gulf countries. Of course, economic profit wont be as much as wt they get touring europe or the US but im pretty certain they wont have any great losses.
. Maybe its just wishful thinking on my part but i really think opeth would have a reasonable chance of success in the mideast, or to be more specific,, in the arabian gulf. hope this dream becomes a reality
!
thanks for elaborating.
one point is that opeth aren't really a stadium band, like elton john or limp bizkit are (though that point is debatable).
but i think there's lots of people who'd enjoy seeing metallica, maiden, opeth and more in your region. bands seem to like going to israel, too. i don't understand why you don't get many bands there.. i'm sure record sales and everything are not bad.
well, if i ever hit the big time, i'll make an effort
good luck!! maybe by showing someone that there IS a scene and how far you've gone to support it, they'll do some supporting of their own.
one point is that opeth aren't really a stadium band, like elton john or limp bizkit are (though that point is debatable).
but i think there's lots of people who'd enjoy seeing metallica, maiden, opeth and more in your region. bands seem to like going to israel, too. i don't understand why you don't get many bands there.. i'm sure record sales and everything are not bad.
well, if i ever hit the big time, i'll make an effort
good luck!! maybe by showing someone that there IS a scene and how far you've gone to support it, they'll do some supporting of their own.
A. Iverson said:frankly i gotta say that i am surprised (pleasantly!) by the reaction of u people to the thread,, i honestly didnt expect such open-mindedness as i had started a similar thread in a deathmetal forum somewhere demanding attention in the middle east, and all the replies i got were offensive like, 'muslims go to hell' , 'camel-humpers suck my dick' ....etc. Not a good sign!
These are pictures of my friends and i. we all have bands, and thanks to ME we're all including opeth songs in our list whenever we perform.
http://www.rock4ever.net/main/main.php?id=4
Keep rockin dude!
and I hope Opeth comes your way sometime!! Luckily I live in the US so I get to see them quiet a bit... and I know what you mean by the whole racial thing because I am from Siciliy and people here are just equally into sterotypes as well.. But yeah keep your band going and tell me when you post some songs so I could hear them... Someone has an RR3 OR RR5 in your pictures.. SWEET?!? I got a black RR5 just like that... LOVE JACKSONS, but yeah dude keep up the band.. peace..
zortz
Member
It's one thing to blame, and another for the media to speculate on who actually committed an attrocity. Before the media knew who the culprits were for OK City and 9/11, of course they all speculated on who did it, but I don't remember any media outlets coming out and saying "Muslim extremists did it" or "Palestinians did it" before the evidence was in. But you can't expect the media not to include groups with a history of bombings, etc, when speculating "whodoneit ?"The_Accolade said:
I've specifically heard O'Reilly on more than one occasion point out that it's not Arabs, or Muslims in general who are the problem, but extremists groups. I don't know who Nancy Grace is. I don't see O'Reilly 'hating' on Arabs at all. He does have a major problem with the French though, for reasons he's explained. He's called for a 'boycott' on French products etc. He has some very good points about how the French have been treating the USA lately, but I'm not sure if I agree with his position here. He's stated that he doesn't have hatred for the French people, but he has problems with the present 'Gaulist' French leadership, and the French media (especially LeMonde) which he considers ultra-left-wing.
Do you actually watch O'Reilly, or are you basing your conclusions on what others have said or what you've read on the internet, or whatever ? I've noticed the people that he pisses off the most seem to be those on the far left or far right (the so called Kool Aid people). Theres plenty I don't agree with him on, but there's also many things I do. Dismissing him as a 'creep' seems a bit unfair to me.
about o'reilly - yes, i've listened to him on the radio and watched him on tv several times. what i take offense to the most is how he treats his so called guests. its seems like he doesn't listen to them at all, and just goes on about his own opinions. not much of a discussion if you ask me. to be honest, i've only heard him talk about terorrism and not arabs in specific.
did you see the show where he was talking to someone about the brazilian killed by brittish police in the london subway system? i was pretty appalled. i remember thinking that if anyone close to the guy heard o'reilly they would have been very offended. his guest was making some very good points and o'reilly was totally ignoring him.
plus he sexually harassed his intern or someone, went on tv saying her claims were completely unfounded and ridiculous, then he made a settlement payment to her out of court, and went on tv and said this is the last time he ever wants to talk about it.
so that's why i think he's a creep. i also hate what he stands for. a political attitude close to fascism, and a personal attitude based on "i'm not going to listen to anyone, i know everything"
those are just first impressions, but it gets under my skin to think that there is such an obstinate man who is being paid well to deliver his message to millions. i agree with freedom of speech, and i think he has the right to. but i definitely find it questionable that fox gives him that kind of access to the media and pays him handsomely. it sends an obvious message about fox's agenda.
did you see the show where he was talking to someone about the brazilian killed by brittish police in the london subway system? i was pretty appalled. i remember thinking that if anyone close to the guy heard o'reilly they would have been very offended. his guest was making some very good points and o'reilly was totally ignoring him.
plus he sexually harassed his intern or someone, went on tv saying her claims were completely unfounded and ridiculous, then he made a settlement payment to her out of court, and went on tv and said this is the last time he ever wants to talk about it.
so that's why i think he's a creep. i also hate what he stands for. a political attitude close to fascism, and a personal attitude based on "i'm not going to listen to anyone, i know everything"
those are just first impressions, but it gets under my skin to think that there is such an obstinate man who is being paid well to deliver his message to millions. i agree with freedom of speech, and i think he has the right to. but i definitely find it questionable that fox gives him that kind of access to the media and pays him handsomely. it sends an obvious message about fox's agenda.
Hey dude im from Saudi Arabia and i must say it sounds fucking awesome if opeth were able to come to Bahrain. When they were coming to Jordan i was so ready to hop in my car and drive out to the gig but that went to hell. And i too were pleasantly surprised by the open-mindedness expressed here. Anyway keep the metal scene alive man.
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