nomisofsiman
Member
Interesting. That's the first time I heard anyone say anything bad about their last disc. It was pretty damn solid start to finish in my opinion.
What does Blackguard do when not touring? (aka the thread that won't die)
- Thread starter Palabra de Dios
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Interesting. That's the first time I heard anyone say anything bad about their last disc. It was pretty damn solid start to finish in my opinion.
Diabolik
Member
really....not one track stood out for me. I used to be a big Testament fan in the mid to late 80's. I thought thier output after that was not good and I gave the new one many listens and didnt like it.
AeonicSlumber
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Guys, I cannot recommend highly enough to just put Diabolik on your ignore list. I feel like my IQ has gone up substantially since I did!
I have been keeping up with this thread and while all the posts are interesting I don't see how touring could hurt a band. I grew around the Chicago area in the 80's and remember bands like Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, Anthrax, Savatage and more coming through 2, 3 or more times some years. It didn't seem to hurt any of them. It wasn't like they were getting played on the radio. Touring was it...get out there and play and see if the kids like it!
Back then it didn't matter how many times a band came through, I was going to see them. It still doesn't really matter to me. If I like a band I will see them, but being older with a job I start at 6am, a house, and well... just being older I will skip shows. Sometimes I am just tired. Maybe that isn't metal but it's the truth. These bands are trying to grab a younger crowd and get a fan for life. If they just get a few every show they will build a fanbase. Good for them they say. I wish them nothing but the best.
Actually, the only thing I wanted to say is that I am an Into Eternity fan, I am eagerly awaiting the new disc and I have seen them probably 7 or 8 times and can't wait to see them again!!! So much for that crazy touring schedule.:Smug:
Back to you guys now, have fun and play nice!
Back then it didn't matter how many times a band came through, I was going to see them. It still doesn't really matter to me. If I like a band I will see them, but being older with a job I start at 6am, a house, and well... just being older I will skip shows. Sometimes I am just tired. Maybe that isn't metal but it's the truth. These bands are trying to grab a younger crowd and get a fan for life. If they just get a few every show they will build a fanbase. Good for them they say. I wish them nothing but the best.
Actually, the only thing I wanted to say is that I am an Into Eternity fan, I am eagerly awaiting the new disc and I have seen them probably 7 or 8 times and can't wait to see them again!!! So much for that crazy touring schedule.:Smug:
Back to you guys now, have fun and play nice!
AeonicSlumber
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Where is your evidence that the rate of fans should grow exponentially?!! I WANT FACTS!!! How do YOU know its not a linear relationship? Hmm?
The only way I can think of it as being exponential is if you had 2 fans that each told another, making it 4 fans, and then 8, etc. But still, that's assuming the primary way for bands to gain fans is by word of mouth. I don't see how excessive touring correlates to an exponential increase in fan-base down the road.
I really don't care if the statistic is a good one or not. I didn't even come up with it. You should be comprendoing (I guess the verb should be explicar, but w/e) the original guy who brought it up (even though he did say the statistic itself wasn't perfect and was flawed, so he's not at fault either). My point was merely that someone used a statistic to prove a point and I felt they left out part of the story.
Oh, and your statement based on the last.fm data: "So in other words, Agalloch has 3.44 times the number of Blackguard fans NOW" is totally wrong.
Lets review some math:
Agalloch current fans (aka listeners): 171457
Blackguard current fans (aka listeners): 9053
(Agalloch fans)/(Blackguard fans) = 19
Thus using basic mathematics, the correct statement would be "So in other words, Agalloch has 19 times the number of Blackguard fans NOW".
Comprende?
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is all a joke post.
Diabolik
Member
I am glad to see I have gotten under your skin. Glad to see you can hold a debate. This is what a forum is for isnt it? Why have someone on an ignore list? Do you not ever not agree with anyone? And if you did do you cover your ears and stomp your feet yelling "I am not listening" over and over??? just curious. While both sides on this debate have given good points....like what a debate is. The point of being a baby about stuff shows what kind of person you are.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Ok, I am not going back through ALL 22 pages of this thread.
I do not think I ever said that a band's demise would SOLELY 100% be the result of overtouring.
What I have said and firmly believe is that overtouring can lead to many things that would further put the nails in the coffin.
So Aeonic, Claus, dtcowboys, Neil, whoever - Sorry to burst your egos. No one here is certainly getting under my skin. I couldn't care less if you agree with me or not.
Finally Neil - If you are at Blind Guardian I better not hear from people that you were there and were afraid to talk to Bob or I, because that is flippin' ridiculous.
I do not think I ever said that a band's demise would SOLELY 100% be the result of overtouring.
What I have said and firmly believe is that overtouring can lead to many things that would further put the nails in the coffin.
So Aeonic, Claus, dtcowboys, Neil, whoever - Sorry to burst your egos. No one here is certainly getting under my skin. I couldn't care less if you agree with me or not.
Finally Neil - If you are at Blind Guardian I better not hear from people that you were there and were afraid to talk to Bob or I, because that is flippin' ridiculous.
AngraRULES
Member
Condescending much? You came back to add to discussions, or to continue sounding like Mr. Know-It-All?
I actually would love to hear what your actual credentials are, though. You do know (some) of your shit - I am curious where the know-how came from though.
Brian (dcowboys311) made a good point when he said that the average metal fan doesn't have good taste. I see this all the time. The people in our scene that are all over discovering new bands in the underground, who would be interested in bands like (and I'm stealing from other threads on this forum) AKodex, Ghost, or even bands like Dornenreich, Suidakra, Ulver, etc. etc. I mean the list of quality underground bands that are not well known in the "Headbanger's Ball" crowd is endless. These guys love to go to shows and mosh and hear metal. They hear a band like Blackguard and it clicks with them. So I agree that quality is not always the most accurate predictor of a band's success.
But I still agree with Jason and Bob that in certain markets, for a band to play stale metal tour after tour will eventually cause fans to burn out and lose interest; and wait on a better tour for that band. I mean, if Warbringer headlined, and the openers were Swashbuckle, Mutiny Within, Blackguard, and Bonded by Blood, would I go? Probably not, and I like Warbringer. But make the opener someone like Overkill or Metal Church, and then put the same openers in there, and I'd consider it. So if I lived in a city where I could be very choosy about what shows I see, then I totally agree with the Lords of Chicago on this one. But in other markets, the scene lives and dies by having shows often and these bands playing in them.
Now, there's another side to this coin that I'd like this parliament of fools to weigh in on. Big examples: Iron Maiden and Immortal. These bands tour the States, yes, but hardly play long tours hitting 30-40 US cities. Instead, these bands opt for a few big cities (i.e. NYC, Chicago, LA, Milwaukee), then head home. My opinion: this sucks for those of us who don't live near these cities.
But I still agree with Jason and Bob that in certain markets, for a band to play stale metal tour after tour will eventually cause fans to burn out and lose interest; and wait on a better tour for that band. I mean, if Warbringer headlined, and the openers were Swashbuckle, Mutiny Within, Blackguard, and Bonded by Blood, would I go? Probably not, and I like Warbringer. But make the opener someone like Overkill or Metal Church, and then put the same openers in there, and I'd consider it. So if I lived in a city where I could be very choosy about what shows I see, then I totally agree with the Lords of Chicago on this one. But in other markets, the scene lives and dies by having shows often and these bands playing in them.
Now, there's another side to this coin that I'd like this parliament of fools to weigh in on. Big examples: Iron Maiden and Immortal. These bands tour the States, yes, but hardly play long tours hitting 30-40 US cities. Instead, these bands opt for a few big cities (i.e. NYC, Chicago, LA, Milwaukee), then head home. My opinion: this sucks for those of us who don't live near these cities.
Claus / Intromental
20 years of uniting the powers of metal
Jason - for the last time, WHAT IS OVERTOURING???? There is no such thing. That is a personal opinion, there is no such thing as "overtouring". I can't find it in the dictionary or in the handbook for concert bookers & bands - can you?
My ego doesn't take any harm from what you're saying Jason, so don't you worry about that.
When you're saying you couldn't care less if we agree with you or not, then you're lying. You've been part of a 20 page discussion, so you must care.
Claus / Intromental
20 years of uniting the powers of metal
You just won for most stupid comments in one post. Congratulations.
Now perhaps - but back in the day they didn't. They came right off the RTL tour when going into studio to record Master ... but now you're probably going to say that MoP suffered from lack in quality?!
Right - I pulled her out of the hat just to throw a big name in your face of someone who tours all the time. I don't know if she writes her own songs or not (apparently you do?).
Testament toured relentlessly after their first 4 albums, and the following one was always pretty f***ng awesome.
Oh, and now you're back to your "I didn't like album A, so my theory proves that their quality fails with touring".
See above.
See above *2
See above.
Who was it that was "openminded"? Not you, right?!
Now perhaps - but back in the day they didn't. They came right off the RTL tour when going into studio to record Master ... but now you're probably going to say that MoP suffered from lack in quality?!
Right - I pulled her out of the hat just to throw a big name in your face of someone who tours all the time. I don't know if she writes her own songs or not (apparently you do?).
Testament toured relentlessly after their first 4 albums, and the following one was always pretty f***ng awesome.
Oh, and now you're back to your "I didn't like album A, so my theory proves that their quality fails with touring".
See above.
See above *2
See above.
Who was it that was "openminded"? Not you, right?!
Pate
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AeonicSlumber
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It's not so much to do with being "condescending" as it is not feeling like getting banned for saying something mean because it's getting a little annoying hearing the exact same thing from him for 20+ pages even though we've driven it home that it's a stupid point/argument. It's a forum yes, and debate is one thing. But this has gotten to the point of ad nauseum stupidity.
And my "credentials" are for me to know and for you to find out.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Pathetic.
Whoever you are or know, there are a LOT more credible people in the biz who are an open book online. So even if James Hetfield were your brother, that carries little weight if you are going to play THAT game.
Harvester
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dcowboys311
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AeonicSlumber
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AeonicSlumber
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Harvester
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Jasonic
Doom On!
Once again, it's my opinion VS yours.
You think that you CAN'T overtour, and I say you can.
I am certainly in agreement that being on 5 tours a year will eventually have a positive impact on CD sales. I just still think that if you are a mediocre band (which many of the bands in this category are, and I am being VERY generous here), you will be "that band"
Of course I have been part of this conversation for 20 pages. It doesn't mean that I give a rat's ass if you ever see my side of things. Primarily I am replying because a lot of words are being placed into mouths, and many are being accused by using (god forbid on the Prog Power forum) PERSONAL opinion from their own experience.
You guys throw out your randomly selected data to "back it up" and attack people here who actually think for themselves, and go to shows, and buy CDs.
Sure, your perspective of things is different than mine because you have $$$$ on the line for a lot of bands which may eventually fall into the category I speak of, so you might take it a bit more personal. Fair enough. I think any band, promoter, or manager definitely should NOT shrug off feedback of anyone who goes to shows or purchases music. Finally, I know I am just one fan, so you can easily make a comment like, "Well, who cares if you don't go to the show", or "You may not have gone anyway" The problem I see here though is that I am giving you many reasons why I would skip over bands in this category. As a businessman myself, the biggest issue I have is these bands just want to play in front of anyone and everyone, but fail to work on retention.
And yes, that is MY personal belief, opinion, statement, whatever............
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