666!

soundave said:
What about things that are real and illogical that science can't explain? Do you refuse to believe in it or could science be flawed?
just because science can't explain it yet, it doesnt mean science is "flawed". if its real, i beleive in it. put it that way.
 
When people believe in something "greater than themselves" this usually refers to an amplification of their own beliefs in the form of an omnipotent mind reading sky man, and it also means that they lose the ability to realize that they are probably wrong. When people refuse to admit their fallibility they become easily exploitable, and/or dangerous. The benefit of rationality and science is that it is based on the fact that it is always imperfect and can always be improved.

I'm going to get drunk tonight.
 
Powers said:
I disagree, I've no problem with people who have faith in something greater than themselves. I always said that if I was going to believe "God" or moreover, faith, was anything it is a code of ethics a moral guide. I wouldn't be suprised if that's what it orginally was closer to, but the Church propogates a more militarisitic idea, with an actaully God and Satan, and Heaven and Hell, concrete concepts of good and evil rather than abstract ones.

In a strange way I respect people who have faith, or at the least envy them, cause' I as an educted aethistic Westerner am for too cynical to have faith. Organised religons are where my issue lies, because they're all exculsionsist all believing they have the chosen the right path. When really it shouldn't matter waht faith you are, but simply that you have faith. Instead these religions attempt to oppress and subjugate people, with threats and blackmail, into supporting them.

Alot of people judge ALL Christians to be this way and it pisses me off. Christians have denominated and fragmented the belief over the years and made it a travesty for non-believers. Non denominational christians are the people who should be doing all the talking as they don't take all the scriptures word for word, literally. There are many who can look past all the funny men and analyze the original languages and cultures in which the bible was originaly written and find that alot of lines were idioms and metaphors. I plan to read more into theology sooner or later, stuff's real interesting.
 
westknife said:
yeah but the burden of proof is on the believers
no.
if I see a building, I assume someone built it.
if a cake comes out of the oven, I assume someone with intelligence made the cake rather than the oven itself :err:

ps. this discussion is immortal
 
Braighs said:
no.
if I see a building, I assume someone built it.
if a cake comes out of the oven, I assume someone with intelligence made the cake rather than the oven itself :err:

ps. this discussion is immortal
actually you're wrong, the burden of proof is on the believer. i could come up with some random ridiculous scenario (there's an invisible/intangible leprechaun inside your head controlling your thoughts). sure, there's no way to disprove this, but we all know it's ridiculous. if i seriously believed that, the burden of proof would be on me
 
westknife said:
actually you're wrong, the burden of proof is on the believer. i could come up with some random ridiculous scenario (there's an invisible/intangible leprechaun inside your head controlling your thoughts). sure, there's no way to disprove this, but we all know it's ridiculous. if i seriously believed that, the burden of proof would be on me
yup