A "Clayman" Discussion

[NAD]

Like meeting a girl on a date, we all know within the first 5 minutes whether the chick has long-term potential or not, right? Am I lying?

Well, it takes me 6, which is exactly how long it takes me to uh... you know.

Happy melodic death sounds weak with growled vocals. Harsh melodic death needs growled vocals. In Flames is not harsh.

 

[JayKeeley]

Happy melodic death sounds weak with growled vocals. Harsh melodic death needs growled vocals. In Flames is not harsh.

Neither is Velvet Creation really, but by golly, it sounds so traditional doom-inspired with all those Iommi-laden riffs (electric and acoustic, & with similar vibrato I might add) dotted between blistering death riffs, that the death vox just come in and cement the bricks in that wall of sound.

 

[NAD]

So how's your CD burner workin' these days? :Spin:

 

[JayKeeley]

OK I'll send it with the next promos. Fuck, they are piling up just like our backlog.

 

[NAD]

Yeah I probably won't listen to it until around 2006, but I'll have long forgotten to ask by then.

 

[J.]

What, like Children of Bodom? You have to be kidding. Have you ever even heard Chemical Wedding, Something Wicked This Way Comes, Painkiller, Dead Heart in a Dead World, In Search of the Truth, etc? Are you saying that people like Anders would improve those albums if he screamed over them instead keeping the original vocalists?

When you said power metal with retarded vocals, I thought you actually meant power metal, not heavy metal. CoB is retarded no matter what they are. I wouldn't consider Bruce Dickinson, Judas Priest or Nevermore to be power metal. When I think power metal, I think Blind Guardian, Gamma Ray and velveeta metal.

Melodic death (Dark Tranquillity, Edge of Sanity, At the Gates) hardly resemble power metal. And that's where I got confused.

 

[Papa Josh]

I can't remember the last time I reached for an In Flames cd, and I have em' all until RtR.

Besides, if I want that shit, Dark Tranquillity or Soilwork are a better fix for me. At least Strid's clean vocals don't suck.

 

[SonOfNun]

I've never been able to get into the traditional stuff really, but then again I haven't heard a lot of it. I skipped straight into melodic death, then brutal death etc. I've got one album of random Iron Maiden songs on a cdr and thats about it. Its good in a certain mood but the usually overwhelming gayness of the vocals has always put me off of that genre. Then again most anything with clean vocals gets on my nerves so I don't know how I'll be able to get into the traditional/heavy/power metal stuff or if I even want to anyway.

 

[Demonspell]

I second the comments about melodic death having a short shelf life, the only people I can picture listening to it constantly are COB fanboys and people with limited metal knowledge, and on a bad day much of it does sound like power metal with semi-harsh vocals.

 

[J.]

Then again most anything with clean vocals gets on my nerves so I don't know how I'll be able to get into the traditional/heavy/power metal stuff or if I even want to anyway.

Same here. It's better to just pretend that stuff doesn't exist.

 

[JayKeeley]

What kind of ass-backward upside down retarded world do you fuckers live in where you automatically dismiss music because it has clean vocals? How can that even be possible?!!!

Like I said earlier, I would NEVER want to hear Iron Maiden or Black Sabbath songs (for example) with death growls. Likewise, I don't want to hear Suffocation or Negura Bunget with clean vocals.

There is a time and a place. Opeth17 you have time to learn the finer things in life since you are just a young lad. J is doomed forever.

 

[NAD]

I left the clean vs. harsh thing alone because I knew you'd chime in and make a better statement anyhow.

I love growled vocals in their respective place, but I can't think of too many that have actually moved me like countless clean vocals have.

 

[J.]

I should have clarified. I like clean vocals, but it's so easy for them to move into the realm of cheese.

My stoner rock albums (CLutch, Kyuss, Grand Magus, Cathedral) have clean vocals, and I have all of Devin Townsend's works. Helmet is great too. Black Sabbath rules. Type O Negative is A-OK.

But all of those lack the velveeta element within the vocals. When you move into the realm of power metal (Blind Guardian) or heavy metal (Nevermore), the cheese factor gets to be too much for me.

So no, I don't automatically dismiss something if it contains clean vocals, it just requires further inspection to remove my skepticism.

 

[SonOfNun]

I generally find clean vocals irritating when they're done real over the top as seems to be the case in most traditional/power metal. I can handle stuff like Winds or Type O Negative easily and even the crazy vocals Simen Hestnaes busts out in various bands, its really only when they are so high pitched you might as well have a woman singing that it gets irritating. I haven't heard enough of the ole traditional bands to be any kind of a judge, but about 90% of the time a song like "Run to the Hills" or something like that is going to get on my nerves rather than bring me joy. Maybe that's a bad example, but hey I'm inexperienced. Vintersorg and Vortex rule, but when you start getting something that sounds like Hammerfall, I'm gonna turn and go my seperate way. I also saw a Mercyful Fate video which is a band I think is hailed around here. Music wasn't bad, vocals made me change the channel. Besides, there is something too overwhelmingly evil and bad ass about growled vocals that I just can't deny. Plus they sound better almost regardless of the situation.

 

[J.]

I generally find clean vocals irritating when they're done real over the top as seems to be the case in most traditional/power metal. I can handle stuff like Winds or Type O Negative easily and even the crazy vocals Simen Hestnaes busts out in various bands, its really only when they are so high pitched you might as well have a woman singing that it gets irritating. I haven't heard enough of the ole traditional bands to be any kind of a judge, but about 90% of the time a song like "Run to the Hills" or something like that is going to get on my nerves rather than bring me joy. Maybe that's a bad example, but hey I'm inexperienced. Vintersorg and Vortex rule, but when you start getting something that sounds like Hammerfall, I'm gonna turn and go my seperate way. I also saw a Mercyful Fate video which is a band I think is hailed around here. Music wasn't bad, vocals made me change the channel. Besides, there is something too overwhelmingly evil and bad ass about growled vocals that I just can't deny. Plus they sound better almost regardless of the situation.

Precisely. I think I saw that Mercyful Fate video. All the instrumentalists look like your average 80's metal dorks, then you have King Diamond wearing corpse paint and singing like James LaBrie. I was cracking up.

 

[Papa Josh]

You guys just aren't old school enough to appreciate the Fate. :Smug:

Anyhow, you call Nevermore and whatnot cheese yet hail Type O Negative???

Peter Steele isn't even of Velveeta caliber, he's straight up Cheez Whiz!!

Let me guess, do you have the Playgirl centerfold hanging up in your room?

 

[J.]

I knew someone was going to bring up Type O. It was just too obvious.

But there's a difference between Peter Steele and say, the dude from Hammerfall. Type O's schtick is parody. The band aren't serious at all, whereas King Diamond was serious as hell looking a like a clown and singing like eunuch.

I guess I should clarify further. I can't stand the high pitched triple decker cheese. Just gay, oh so gay.

 

[Papa Josh]

To me that's always been a problem for me. It's such a copout for them to say that they don't take themselves seriously. So, if a song just flat out sucks, they can say, oh, we're not serious.

Please, they're serious enough to take this shit out on the road, serious enough to sell t-shirts at ridiculous rates, serious enough to make videos, etc., etc.

And I don't even equate Joacim Cans and the gayness of Hammerfall with King Diamond, it's just not even possible. King is a storyteller, an impressive live performer, where Hammerfall... oh, nevermind.

King rules.

 

[J.]

To me that's always been a problem for me. It's such a copout for them to say that they don't take themselves seriously. So, if a song just flat out sucks, they can say, oh, we're not serious.

Please, they're serious enough to take this shit out on the road, serious enough to sell t-shirts at ridiculous rates, serious enough to make videos, etc., etc.

I see your point. However, a band can take the business side of things seriously (videos, shirts, tours), but still be kind of a parody band. I mean c'mon, My Girlfriend's Girlfriend, I Know You're Fucking Someone Else, Kill All the White People and the entire Origin of the Feces? That's hardly a band that takes their lyrics and subject matter seriously.

Just look at Weird Al.

 

[Papa Josh]

Yeah, they are both about as silly as the other. On the other hand, bands like Exhumed, Carcass, Cannibal Corpse, etc. don't take themselves too seriously, but RULE on a whole nother plateau in telation to TON.