A rant about "shredding"....

[ElectricWiz]

Just reading some of the other topics here, and decided to throw this out....

I see sooooo much emphasis on guitar solos in this forum, and the other ultimate metal forums generally speaking. That's fine and all, but I gotta say, I have never been a huge fan of the guitar solo. I see so much stuff about shredding mentioned and all that, and I just don't get it.

I play, for what that's worth, and even that doesn't really change my mind on the subject. Don't get me wrong, there are a few soloists I like. Jimmy Page, however sloppy, always catches my ear. Mikael Akerfeldt from Opeth just seems to do something interesting nearly every time.....

But as far as Yngwie goes, and million others, I could take 'em or leave 'em. I guess with me it's all about the song, and that mysterious "heart" quality, whatever the hell that is. The thing that makes your hair stand on end. Jimmy had that for instance. But to me, maybe 5 times out of 10, to kinda pause in the middle so an indidual can wank around for a few has always been pointless.

I like Maiden's solos. I love Jerry Garcia (not metal, but whatever), I like Jimmy and Mikael, as stated......and there are plenty others. But why oh why is it a given that a solo is gonna come around in every damned metal tune.

I suppose that's why I gravitate to ISIS and other modern bands. A bunch of guys weaving in and out of each other, letting the song do its thing.

It's not all black and white, I like a good squeal, but people like Zak Wylde pretty much put me to sleep.

Talk amongst yourselves.

 

[Igor_Cavalera]

I love guitar solos. I'm not sure how to explain it, they're just part of what metal is. I suppose the fact that so many amazing guitarists play metal would contribute.

As for Zakk Wylde, I'm a huge fan. He's a very tallented man that lives and breathes heavy metal and this love comes out in his riffs and solos.

 

[baldyboy]

solos are cool,make a great part to many songs-doesnt mean you have to have em in.some of my fave bands,biohazard and life of agony for example,dont go overboard on thier solo work!!

but i really like good solos-marty friedman and jeff waters play solos i love to listen to.

for me,they dont have to be in a song,but its cool when they are.

 

[SoundMaster]

I see sooooo much emphasis on guitar solos in this forum, and the other ultimate metal forums generally speaking. That's fine and all, but I gotta say, I have never been a huge fan of the guitar solo. I see so much stuff about shredding mentioned and all that, and I just don't get it.

I play, for what that's worth, and even that doesn't really change my mind on the subject. Don't get me wrong, there are a few soloists I like. Jimmy Page, however sloppy, always catches my ear. Mikael Akerfeldt from Opeth just seems to do something interesting nearly every time.....

But as far as Yngwie goes, and million others, I could take 'em or leave 'em. I guess with me it's all about the song, and that mysterious "heart" quality, whatever the hell that is. The thing that makes your hair stand on end. Jimmy had that for instance. But to me, maybe 5 times out of 10, to kinda pause in the middle so an indidual can wank around for a few has always been pointless.

I like Maiden's solos. I love Jerry Garcia (not metal, but whatever), I like Jimmy and Mikael, as stated......and there are plenty others. But why oh why is it a given that a solo is gonna come around in every damned metal tune.

I suppose that's why I gravitate to ISIS and other modern bands. A bunch of guys weaving in and out of each other, letting the song do its thing.

It's not all black and white, I like a good squeal, but people like Zak Wylde pretty much put me to sleep.

Talk amongst yourselves.

ElecWiz, I agree 100%, absolutely. Too many fans place far too much emphasis on the solo. ANd, IMO, very few guitarists can even construct solos that add to the song.

I really agree with you in that I find both Page and Ackerfeldt as among the few who CAN play a meaningful solo. I'd also add Richie Blackmore to that list (just check out the amazing, godly beauty of his solo in Rainbow's 'Temple of the King'!). Good call with Maiden - they usually play melodic, graceful solos (except for Gers, who's solos are usually sloppy noise for the sake of noise - although he generally writes really strong songs). Smith's solos in "Wasted Years" and "Stranger in a Strange Land" are the climax of those tunes, IMO. Allso, most Randy Rhodes' solos on the two Ozzy records fit the songs perferctly, and are essential to those songs (SATO in particular).

I, too, tend to gravitate towards the modern metal movement, much of which forsakes the solo altogether (most of Katatonia, My Dying Bride, Anathama, the Gathering, etc). The emphasis on these bands is feeling and emotion, and if the solo detracts from that, they bypass it altogether.


On the flipside, there are some shreders who DO add to the music. I'm not a Van Halen fan, but "Eruption" is an awesome display. I also like a few of Satriani's albums (the self-titled blues record and 2002's 'Strange Beautiful Music').


Other examples of the memorable solos are Priest's "Beyond the Realms of Death", Sabbth's "Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath", Dokken's "The Hunter" and "Heaven Sent".

 

[ElectricWiz]

Ah Soundmaster, I'm learning I can count on you! I agree with all you said, and would gladly add Mr. Blackmore. Made In Japan is virtuoso from front to back, and interesting throughout (and, I might add, a record with A LOT of solos). Tony Iommi tends to catch my ear too, and I agree with your other additions too. I would add, there are A LOT of solos I can put up with, and love too. So, this wasn't a black and white post. Oh, and, of course Eruption is ERUPTION! There again though, it stands alone, literally, it's own song.

Priest never bores me. Maiden never. Sabbath never. Tons of others. And I can listen to Jerry Garcia go at it for hours (and do). Or the solo on Sultans of Swing by Dire Straits.....and lots of metal cats. But, oh, I don't know, I'd live if I never thought I'd hear another Kerry King solo. To a certain extent, Kirk Hammett as well. He always sounds the same to me.....that kind of thing.....just not for me.

 

[Kenneth R.]

i agree dude... solos are BORING if it doesn't suit the song, if it doesn't evoke feeling and add to the song itself.

the one guitar shredder i really can't stand at all is Yngwie.

and if it matters, i too play guitar.

 

[IcedMadness]

One player that I think was just amazing was Randy Rhoads. That guy could jam. One of his best solos are the solos in Mr. Crowley. He was a ripper. It sucks that he died at such a young age. Imagine a world with Randy still playin for Ozzy. I don't think Zakk would have his BLS just because he wouldn't have the recognition as being the guitar player for Ozzy. I agree with what you guys have talked about with the "shredders." To me, it doesn't matter how fast you play, it's how it feels and sounds.

Being a guitar player I could listen to guys like Zakk, Petrucci and Hammet and just be in awe. Sure they do the occasional shred, but I listen and go, "how did they do that?" They do little things that most people don't notice (and for some reason, I can't think of any)

 

[SickBoy]

I was never too impressed by someone's technical abilities.
Guys ranting about Michael Angelo and the likes always left a smile on my face...
I consider solos to be a song within a song, a melodical piece which works out within its space in some song. I don't care if it's slow or fast, just that it fits perfectly.
Here's an example, Vinnie Moore is the guy who can play the craziest chops and still make them sound very pleasant and melodical. Friedman's very unorthodox and distinct style put him among the best on my personal list a long time ago...
He's one of the rare birds that can make a solo a whole minute long (Tornado of Souls) with every single milisecond as amazing. Maiden except for horrible Gers and Blackmore, as well as Gilmour of Pink Floyd always give me goosebumps.
That's the kind of player I'd like to be, not some "fastest", "craziest" or whatever-that-teenagers-turn-on-to guitarist...

 

[Igor_Cavalera]

whatever-that-teenagers-turn-on-to guitarist...

I find this statement offensive.
Please don't resort to using stereotypes to back up your post.

 

[USMC0341]

It's very easy to overdo it. The key to being a great guitarist and soloist are:

1) Knowing when enough is enough
2) Making sure the solo enhances the song and isn't just a venue for standing at the edge of the stage trying to look cool while you play
3) Making sure the solo doesn't compete with anything else going on in the song
4) That the solo conveys the same feel and emotional content of the rest of the piece

As for Yngwie - he has some of the best technique out there - but that's all he does, and he is very 1 dimensional. I love a lot of his stuff, but a lot of it is also boring. At the end of the day, give me Dave Murray and Adrian Smith trading off and busting our harmonies...or KK Downing and Glen Tipton going back and forth. Jonathan Donais from Shadows Fall is another awesome soloist - never overdoes it, always melodic and he throws enough technical stuff in there to make it challenging.

At the end of the day - you can be as fast as you want, but if you don't have feel and can't get into the body of the song - what's the use?

JB

 

[SoundMaster]

Gilmour of Pink Floyd always give me goosebumps.
That's the kind of player I'd like to be, not some "fastest", "craziest" or whatever-that-teenagers-turn-on-to guitarist...

Oh, yes. Dave is awesome! The solo in "Comfortably Numb" is a musical orgasm. THAT solo is the major leagues!

 

[Igor_Cavalera]

I finally know how to explain why the guitar solo is so important in metal. There is so much variety in metal and the guitar solo is part of this, it adds contrast by letting a different instrument carry the melody line for a while. It also has greater potential for a climax point in the song as a guitar has a much wider pitch range than a vocalist and can also hit more than one note at a time (if needed) etc. etc.

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

I'm pretty much on board with everyone here. The guitar solos are important, very important to me. But, with that being said, it is just as important that the solo is done with feeling and melody, and fits into the song. If a guy is just going to squeak-squawk-diddle-daddle his way through a solo, then I'm not interested.

Someone mentioned Dream Theater, which is a perfect example, not only in solos but their entire approach to writing. I never could get into DT. I recognize their talent, but they have written very few songs that actually reach out and touch my heart. It's too technical for my tastes.

The masters of emotional guitar solos to me are: Gilmour, Blackmore, Schenker, Jabs (Scorpions), Rhoads and Criss Oliva. Also love the twin guitar attack of Maiden and Priest.

Eddie Van Halen, Yngwie, Zakk, and that ilk just don't do it for me. I like them, but they just don't wiggle my willie like an emotional guitar player does.

 

[ElectricWiz]

I'm pretty much on board with everyone here. The guitar solos are important, very important to me. But, with that being said, it is just as important that the solo is done with feeling and melody, and fits into the song. If a guy is just going to squeak-squawk-diddle-daddle his way through a solo, then I'm not interested.

Someone mentioned Dream Theater, which is a perfect example, not only in solos but their entire approach to writing. I never could get into DT. I recognize their talent, but they have written very few songs that actually reach out and touch my heart. It's too technical for my tastes.

The masters of emotional guitar solos to me are: Gilmour, Blackmore, Schenker, Jabs (Scorpions), Rhoads and Criss Oliva. Also love the twin guitar attack of Maiden and Priest.

Eddie Van Halen, Yngwie, Zakk, and that ilk just don't do it for me. I like them, but they just don't wiggle my willie like an emotional guitar player does.

For what it's worth, this is exactly what I was trying to say, but in nice plain language. I got nothing against solos, per se. Only that, the whole concept is so watered down now, and for whatever reason, solos are obligatory. People freaked out over St. Anger not having solos. Regardless of your view on the record (I know, whoever you are, you hate it...) I thought no solos was a pretty bold move. But, to hear it from there mouths, they didn't do it to be bold, it just felt a bit tired a concept this time around.

Now, I don't just sit and grind my teeth waiting for solos to be over....and I've even owned some Yngwie over the years.....I just think it's a boring concept to go verse/chorus/verse and, oh, now our primadona has something to tell you with his Charvel Jackson.....eedly eedly eedly.....

Blackmore, Page, Akerfeldt, (yes) Randy Rhoads, Dave Murray, Adrian Smith, Glen Tipton, K.K., Roy Z, and tons of others.....they guys from Thin Lizzy (all of 'em, ha). I love 'em. Bring it. Too much is not enough. But 90% of what is happening now, and what is the legacy of the 80s and 90s, is just so much showing off (give or take), and puts me to sleep.

 

[Igor_Cavalera]

I'll argue that Zakk Wylde's solos are very emotional. The "No More Tears" album is probably the best example of this, just listen to "No More Tears" or "Road To Nowhere" or "Momma, I'm Coming Home" there's some very emotional guitar work in that album.

In Black Label Society most of his solos are fast with squeals - True, but isn't that the sort of solo that fits those type of songs perfectly?

But anyways, it's all about oppinion, so in the end.. We're ALL right!

 

[SickBoy]

I find this statement offensive.
Please don't resort to using stereotypes to back up your post.

If I offended you, I'm very sorry, that was not my intention at all.
But I base that "stereotypical" opinion on the teenagers I've met and talked to (and there've been quite a few).
I don't see anything offensive in my statement, it's just when someone starts getting interested in music and playing, everything over a simple chord change seems a miracle to and fascinates him/her. There's nothing wrong there, in time the realization of some things will come, but still the majority of teenagers are much easily impressed by showing off than by some meaningful and to the point playing... Imagine this, my band got a note in the guestbook saying "your songs are good, but you should blah blah and *fasten* your solos". I wouldn't presume this guy is over 18, would you?

 

[SickBoy]

Oh, yes. Dave is awesome! The solo in "Comfortably Numb" is a musical orgasm. THAT solo is the major leagues!

Not to mention "Time"...

 

[Igor_Cavalera]

If I offended you, I'm very sorry, that was not my intention at all.
But I base that "stereotypical" opinion on the teenagers I've met and talked to (and there've been quite a few).
I don't see anything offensive in my statement, it's just when someone starts getting interested in music and playing, everything over a simple chord change seems a miracle to and fascinates him/her. There's nothing wrong there, in time the realization of some things will come, but still the majority of teenagers are much easily impressed by showing off than by some meaningful and to the point playing... Imagine this, my band got a note in the guestbook saying "your songs are good, but you should blah blah and *fasten* your solos". I wouldn't presume this guy is over 18, would you?

There's no way you can base that on age. I will be 17 in a week and I've had over 9 years of guitar, drums and music theory lessons and a lot of experience playing live at local events, which ranges from playing drums for my my rock/metal band and even playing at classical music shows.

Stereotypes will always offend someone as everyone is different. I accept your apology and would be grateful if you could not make any comments of age descrimination in the future as it's a very touchy subject for me. Thank you.

 

[AngelWitch73]

I like solos in songs, to me they are important but if there are just solos added for the sake of having a solo then it´s not good. There needs to be a balance. A great solo in the middle of a song can add a lot to it. Constant soloing to show off your skills can be too much.

 

[SoundMaster]

Someone mentioned Dream Theater, which is a perfect example, not only in solos but their entire approach to writing. I never could get into DT. I recognize their talent, but they have written very few songs that actually reach out and touch my heart.

Agreed 100%.

Years ago, when they burst on to the scene with "Pull me Under", I was intrigued. Then, I saw them open up for Maiden in spring 1992 on the "Fear of the Dark" tour. I was rather impressed. At the time, they seemed like the spark that metal sorely needed.

I picked up the album, and aside from the poor vocals of LaBrie, found myself really liking it.
However, with each successive album, the band seemed to steer farther and farther away from actual songs and into the territory of cramming 479,283,217 notes into every minute of music, simply for it's own sake.

And that does not a song make. For the most part, their catalogue is completely devoid of emotion. There are a few exceptions, however (some of Scenes from a Memory is good). But overall, in their quest to "technically superior", they've ironically become quite inferior.

In my opinion, anyway.