A rant about "shredding"....

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

There's no way you can base that on age. I will be 17 in a week and I've had over 9 years of guitar, drums and music theory lessons and a lot of experience playing live at local events, which ranges from playing drums for my my rock/metal band and even playing at classical music shows.

Stereotypes will always offend someone as everyone is different. I accept your apology and would be grateful if you could not make any comments of age descrimination in the future as it's a very touchy subject for me. Thank you.

Hey Igor, I got a bit of advice for ya, from an old geezer...you can take it to heart or tell me to fuck off; your choice. All I ask is that you take some time to think about it.

[BEGIN LECTURE]

Stereotypes are a natural part of our society and are generally quite accurate when describing the majority of a given group. For example, I am a NASCAR fan. I hear people all the time, referencing NASCAR fans as uneducated, beer-swilling, gap-toothed southern rednecks (and they are correct, for the most part, the "majority" are). Rather than be offended by that stereotype, I smile because I know they aren't talking about me; I'm outside the norm (I'm an educated, beer-swilling, crooked-toothed Montana redneck, thank you very much!) and I'm proud of it.

Obviously you are well-schooled and very intelligent, Igor. Which puts you outside the norm for teenagers. So, rather than be offended by stereotypical generalizations of our youngest generation, I'd suggest you just smile and say to yourself, "I know they aren't talking about me. I'm outside the norm and I'm damn proud of it!"

You'll be a much happier person if you take this approach to life. There is no sense stressing out about little shit in life that you can just as easily turn into a positive.

[/END LECTURE]

 

[SoundMaster]

Stereotypes are a natural part of our society and are generally quite accurate when describing the majority of a given group.

Generally speaking, a stereotype has to contain, at least, some grain of truth. Otherwise, it would never come into being or be used in common parlance.
Also generally true is that said stereotypes are then blown waaaayyy out of
proportion and become more falacious than factual.

 

[SickBoy]

There's no way you can base that on age. I will be 17 in a week and I've had over 9 years of guitar, drums and music theory lessons and a lot of experience playing live at local events, which ranges from playing drums for my my rock/metal band and even playing at classical music shows.

Well, that makes you an exception, doesn't it?
That's a really nice resume, I wish I could say that for myself when I was your age.
Let me quote myself:

...There's nothing wrong there, in time the realization of some things will come, but still the majority of teenagers are much easily impressed by showing off than by some meaningful and to the point playing...

Notice the bolded word, you obviously *do not* fit into that category.
Take it easy, man!

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

Also generally true is that said stereotypes are then blown waaaayyy out of
proportion and become more falacious than factual.

So true, Soundmaster, they do get blown out of proportion. But that's the fun of stereotypes, should you choose to approach them with an easy come, easy go attitude like I do. Life's too short to be offended by stereotypes in my opinion. I'd rather have just have fun!

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

Most songs but not all require a solo... it sets the mood for the song whether in the beginning of it or in the middle.. whether slow and "feeling" like Gilmour on his first solo in Comfortably Numb to Vernon Reid's solos in Cult of Personality (heard it on the radio today for first time in a long time and i think he was always a underrated guitarist) to superwarp speed like Hanneman/King on any Slayer song...

 

[Igor_Cavalera]

Sorry guys. You're right Trans-Siberian Outcast, I shouldn't take it to heart.
I'm going through a pretty hard time in my life at the moment so I guess that's why I was so easily offended. Again, I'm sorry.

 

[Bryant]

There isn't much I can add that hasn't been said. I love guitar, guitar solos, and even instrumentals when done right. I certainly do not like "solos" for the sake of playing something complicated or for the sake of playing a solo. If it doesn't really help the mood and flow of the song, it has no business being there.
Some people mentioned Yngwie and I both agree and disagree. Yngwie's first release was something that was years in the making as far as writing and composing (despite he was a young man) and it was brilliant work. Unfortunately because he created the best selling instrumental metal guitar album of all time and became quite famous, he decided the best part of it was being a guitarist and a "rock star" as opposed to a musician,songwriter and composer. His work after that release paled in comparison.
My favorite guitarist, Wolf Hoffmann, more often than not, actually changed the rythm of the song for his leads, but he always added something to the song and never interrupted the flow of the song.
Some others mentioned oldschool guys like Gilmour.... Gilmour, Dharma, Medlocke, etc. etc. those guys could really play. There are guitar masters from every era that have stayed out of the spotlight, but have really added much to metal (and rock or whatever) music. Music wouldn't be what it is today without the guitar solo. I for one wouldn't enjoy it quite as much.


Bryant

 

[USMC0341]

There isn't much I can add that hasn't been said. I love guitar, guitar solos, and even instrumentals when done right. I certainly do not like "solos" for the sake of playing something complicated or for the sake of playing a solo. If it doesn't really help the mood and flow of the song, it has no business being there.
Some people mentioned Yngwie and I both agree and disagree. Yngwie's first release was something that was years in the making as far as writing and composing (despite he was a young man) and it was brilliant work. Unfortunately because he created the best selling instrumental metal guitar album of all time and became quite famous, he decided the best part of it was being a guitarist and a "rock star" as opposed to a musician,songwriter and composer. His work after that release paled in comparison.
My favorite guitarist, Wolf Hoffmann, more often than not, actually changed the rythm of the song for his leads, but he always added something to the song and never interrupted the flow of the song.
Some others mentioned oldschool guys like Gilmour.... Gilmour, Dharma, Medlocke, etc. etc. those guys could really play. There are guitar masters from every era that have stayed out of the spotlight, but have really added much to metal (and rock or whatever) music. Music wouldn't be what it is today without the guitar solo. I for one wouldn't enjoy it quite as much.


Bryant

As always...well stated Bryant. And I think you clarified Yngwie brilliantly. After this thread started, I went and listened to "Black Star" about 20 times. Fucking unbelievable stuff.

JB

 

[Wyvern]

To me a solo is eesential to a song. May be short or long but a song without a solo is like

One reason I never got into Slayer is because they suck at soloing IMO. On the other hand I can perfectly pass through Testament "The Gathering" where James Murphy didn't put solos (and he knows how to) and even so the album clicks.

But when you grew up hearing stuff like:

Deep Purple - 'Highway Star'
Black Sabbath - 'Heaven And Hell'
Judas Priest - 'Beyond The Realms Of Death'
Thin Lizzy - 'Emerald'
Rainbow - 'A Light In The Black'
Pink Floyd - 'Dogs'

and when then you hear stuff like:

Megadeth - 'Tornado Of Souls'
Coroner - 'Pale Sister'
Metallica - 'Master Of Pupets'
Metal Church - 'Watch The Children Pray'

well you can catch my drift.

 

[Bryant]

As always...well stated Bryant. And I think you clarified Yngwie brilliantly. After this thread started, I went and listened to "Black Star" about 20 times. Fucking unbelievable stuff.

JB

Thanks Marine. Wish I could make money making useless posts about Yngwie (or whoever) ha ha ha. Black Star is an awesome tune. It is probably my second fave behind Icarus Dream Suite Opus 3 (or whatever the title is, though I think that is close to it.)

Bryant

 

[tedvanfrehley]

Well, I think the whole thing about liking or hating shredding depends a little bit on your age and whether or not you loved metal in the 80's...I love metal with or without solos, but it seems like all of my most favorite metal songs of all time contain kickass solos! For instance, can you imagine hearing MASTER OF PUPPETS without the solos? Or what about THIS LOVE without Dimebag laying down that ferocious lead??? On the flip side, there are a LOT of good songs with no solos but for me they tend to be more in the "rock" vein like the RAMONES. But even the Beatles had guitar solos!!! I guess the players I never got as much into were the guys who ONLY shredded and maybe that's what this thread is about? I love solos, but when there is no great song then the solo is just wanking...so there is definitely a happy medium...

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

There isn't much I can add that hasn't been said. I love guitar, guitar solos, and even instrumentals when done right. I certainly do not like "solos" for the sake of playing something complicated or for the sake of playing a solo. If it doesn't really help the mood and flow of the song, it has no business being there.
Some people mentioned Yngwie and I both agree and disagree. Yngwie's first release was something that was years in the making as far as writing and composing (despite he was a young man) and it was brilliant work. Unfortunately because he created the best selling instrumental metal guitar album of all time and became quite famous, he decided the best part of it was being a guitarist and a "rock star" as opposed to a musician,songwriter and composer. His work after that release paled in comparison.
My favorite guitarist, Wolf Hoffmann, more often than not, actually changed the rythm of the song for his leads, but he always added something to the song and never interrupted the flow of the song.
Some others mentioned oldschool guys like Gilmour.... Gilmour, Dharma, Medlocke, etc. etc. those guys could really play. There are guitar masters from every era that have stayed out of the spotlight, but have really added much to metal (and rock or whatever) music. Music wouldn't be what it is today without the guitar solo. I for one wouldn't enjoy it quite as much.


Bryant

Didnt Satriani's Surfing with the Alien sell more? i always considered that album better then Yngwie's... <shrugs> ...

 

[Wyvern]

Didnt Satriani's Surfing with the Alien sell more? i always considered that album better then Yngwie's... <shrugs> ...

Don't know if it sold more but it's definitively better (I have all Satriani and Malmsteen album, so I believe I can compare as a listener).

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

Don't know if it sold more but it's definitively better (I have all Satriani and Malmsteen album, so I believe I can compare as a listener).

On that album Satriani was definetly a more diversified player and that album is a classic... Malsteen never did anything different on each of his albums that you didnt already hear on the first one... I used to listen to Alien over and over when i first got it... I can see why Hammett, Skolnick , Vai and others took lessons from Satriani...

 

[Wyvern]

I can see why Hammett, Skolnick , Vai and others took lessons from Satriani...

Aye. Sadly Satch has lost some of his touch. I heard him with his band and was asome, a few months alter I heard him with the G3 and was too tamed.

Also his albums are lacking substance lately, "The Extremist" is his best IMO, and the last really good was "Crystal Planet".

 

[BURNING STAR]

Guitar solo's are an integral part of real metal. In fact the only REAL METAL song I can think of that doesn't have a guitar solo in it is BREAKING THE LAW.

Now I must admit that some people like those 'Shrapnel' guys and the like are a tad boring, but that's mainly because guys like that only write songs for the solo. It's like the song is incidental.

There are some guys who make this work - George Lynch for one... his songs are pretty simple, but they are good enough to make an impression - but it's his solo's that lift the songs that little bit higher.

On the other hand, there are some guitarists who take over their bands with the huge ego and think that all anybody wants to hear is them (are you listening Mr Petrucci).

But there is one guy that I worship...and he conforms to every worst thing that you can imagine!

1) Knowing when enough is enough

NOPE!!!

2) Making sure the solo enhances the song and isn't just a venue for standing at the edge of the stage trying to look cool while you play

HA - NOPE!!!

3) Making sure the solo doesn't compete with anything else going on in the song

NOPE NOPE NOPE!!!

4) That the solo conveys the same feel and emotional content of the rest of the piece

FAT CHANCE.

He is the one, the only....Mr Vinnie Vincent.
A man for whom the term 'shredding' is barely even the beginning.
What a loon.

 

[USMC0341]

Didnt Satriani's Surfing with the Alien sell more? i always considered that album better then Yngwie's... <shrugs> ...

At the end of the day, when you are talking about guitarists in ANY genre who are that talented - be it Yngwie, Vai, Satrianni, Segovia, Montoya, Petrucci, Holdsoworth, Dimeola or whoever - they are all talented and it's pointless to argue who's better than who. Once you are at that point, it's all about taste and what moves and inspires you as a listener and fellow musician...

That's my 2 cents.

 

[SoundMaster]

Guitar solo's are an integral part of real metal. In fact the only REAL METAL song I can think of that doesn't have a guitar solo in it is BREAKING THE LAW.

What's "real metal" mean? Is there then something called "fake metal"?

There's tons of awesome metal that foresakes the solo entirely.

 

[Wyvern]

What's "real metal" mean? Is there then something called "fake metal"?

Acoording to Manowar it should be because they are busting eveyone's balls with the true metal thing since the dawn of time.

Metal is as good, true and nice as you want it to be. Everything is finally in the ear of the listener, fuck the rest.

 

[Unfaithfully Metalhead]

At the end of the day, when you are talking about guitarists who are that talented - be it Yngwie, Vai, Satrianni, Petrucci, Holdsowrth, Dimeola or whoever - they are all talented and it's pointless to argue who's better than who. Once you are at that point, it's all about taste and what moves and inspires you as a listener and musician...

That's my 2 cents.

I didnt necessarily say Satch is better... though i do admit i consider him better not because of technical playing but because he does a whole lot more then the classical angle (which i do love classical playing in metal but ala Rhoads only) ... I know everyone has different tastes though... just what Malsteen does has been done to death by him and others... I do like his Trilogy album the best though...