...and America reformed health care.

[ThatGuitarGuy]

Because your comment wasn't really clear at all, and in the end I just didn't care enough to think hard enough to figure out what you were trying to say. Your friend is reading it - great. You get 10k for what? in what form? Could it be that that's 10K in the form of tax credits to purchase your own health care? The actual government-run care program doesn't even start until 2012 or 2013, and they've hardly hammered out details like exactly how much they'll pay for your hospital bills.

Your point about making too much = not getting money from the government is retarded. If you make enough money, you should be buying your own health care to begin with, not relying on 'Obamacare.'

For everyone else, the grant process is fine - it's much like the waiting lists for operations in any other country with socialized medicine. You're evaluated on a need-based scale as to when you're gonna get service/how much will be paid for. And before you try to counter that a predictable "but nobody should have to wait/who's to judge who gets care and who doesn't" comment, you can't tell me that the same shit doesn't happen right now with private insurance companies.

It means that your $85,000 bill would only get $10,000 of it covered by obamacare per year per family. The remaining $75,000 you'll have to figure out how to pay for. They may give you a grant to cover it, or you may be SOL and have to pay it out of your pocket. That's what that means.

Essentially, anyone needing surgery or anything is screwed.

 

[JeffTD]

It means that your $85,000 bill would only get $10,000 of it covered by obamacare per year per family. The remaining $75,000 you'll have to figure out how to pay for. They may give you a grant to cover it, or you may be SOL and have to pay it out of your pocket. That's what that means.

Essentially, anyone needing surgery or anything is screwed.

Again, stupid argument. The bill isn't going to be that high - that's just what they charge insurance companies as we've been discussing for the last 10 posts of this thread.

I already gave my arguments in support of the grant system - it was already in place in insurance companies (choosing to cover you or not despite you paying premiums, something that was actually changed by this bill), and people who make enough to be covering their own asses with private health insurance to begin with of course aren't going to get grants.

And no, "anyone needing surgery or anything" is NOT screwed. It's just like it is now - if it's a life threatening condition, you'll get the operation, and you'll figure out the payment afterwards. Sure, there are cases of people not having insurance to begin with who don't get the care they need, but those tend to be the exceptions and not the rule.

So say someone on 'Obamacare' needs a surgery that does cost the astronomical 85k figure, gets the surgery, and the government only covers 10k of it. Guess what? Taxpayer money is what the government uses to pick up the remaining tab - the same taxpayer money that paid for the first 10k in the first place, and the same taxpayer money that pays for unpaid hospital bills right now.

What changes with 'Obamacare' is that the person has some sort of health insurance in the first place and is thus more likely to get the surgery they need, and has a really damn good chance of the government picking up the entire bill after the fact.



But seriously, you can't make a weak argument, bitch about us not addressing it, and then reword the same weak argument but add a bold and grossly erroneous statement to it when we actually do address it.

 

[Wolfeman]

I haven't read this thread, and don't need too, since I know the arguments on both sides, and it's futile to bitch back and forth about it.

All I want to say is, that for the past 9 years I have been under government run health care in the military, and you are all in for a nasty surprise. Trust me. If they haven't got it right for their employees over the past few hundred years, I don't see any way how the civilian side of health care is going to be any better. I can list examples of how shitty they make things for me right now, but it doesn't matter anymore, you are all going to experience it soon.

 

[roy22341]

Wolfeman,

I was going to post something similar to this, but not having experienced it directly, did not want to make any incorrect statements.

 

[Morgan C]

Reformed healthcare => Rise in Terrorism
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMu6wCqdeyQ&feature=player_embedded[/ame]
You guys are preeeeeeetty much fucked.

 

[Wolfeman]

Wolfeman,

I was going to post something similar to this, but not having experienced it directly, did not want to make any incorrect statements.

I'm sure your assumption are correct, might as well post em haha.


Be prepared for long long waits, having to see multiple 'providers' over months at a time just to be refereed to a 'specialist' who refers you to someone else, then paper work gets messed up, and you are back to the provider, who doesn't agree with something, then you have to see another specialist, just for a pain in your lower back. I can go on and on and on.That's the way the government works, it's a bureaucracy in action.

 

[P-E]

Reformed healthcare => Rise in Terrorism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMu6wCqdeyQ&feature=player_embedded
You guys are preeeeeeetty much fucked.

 

[SocialNumb]

Reformed healthcare => Rise in Terrorism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMu6wCqdeyQ&feature=player_embedded
You guys are preeeeeeetty much fucked.

I was about to watch this, then I noticed the Fox news symbol. :Smug:

 

[Skinny Viking]

I was about to watch this, then I noticed the Fox news symbol. :Smug:

whats the matter? don't you like senseless comedy?

 

[ThatGuitarGuy]

Jeff, while I know that the price won't be $85,000, I have a pretty hard time believing that someone with cancer won't have some medical bills above $10,000. Not only that, but you have way too much faith in a system that is much like social security and medicare.

I don't have much faith that my kids will be taken care of with this new method of doing things.

 

[Chris_P_Critter]

My last post for this thread: This whole bill is defective, because it undermines what this country is founded on, capitalism. This country is going to have so much debt, I wonder how it can survive. Social Security is already out of money and cashing in the IOU's from what congress borrowed from them. That money is going straight to the debt. To quantify that point, Warren Buffet's company can now borrow money at a lower rate than the US government--apparently investors believe his company is more likely to pay them back.

I am truly worried about the future of this country. I just hope that there is enough backlash from people that understand what is going on, to completely change congress on this next election in November and repeal this act before it goes into effect. The situation is really dire, and I hope that enough people see this to make the necessary changes.

 

[EerieVon]

At least with the bill becoming law the frame work is their for them to tweak and fix over time, whereas if it was not passed, they would want to perfect it before bringing it back out for a vote--which could take years or decades. Is it perfect? Hell no, but nothing the govt does ever is, but at least its a start

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

This is a huge step in forward for our country. I'm buying a big ass American flag today after work. For the first time in my life, I can happily say I'm proud to be American. We are a real country now.

I'm elated about this day, never thought I would see it.

 

[Altitudes]

^ Me too buddy. I am glad a health care proposal finally passed. The country is a little better off now.

 

[Damian B]

My last post for this thread: This whole bill is defective, because it undermines what this country is founded on, capitalism.

I have to take issue with this. American was not founded on an economic principle. Capitalism came about after the civil war during the Industrial Revolution.

Adam Smith detailed a lot of capitalist ideology in "The Wealth of Nations," but to say the nation was founded on Capitalism is just incorrect.

 

[John_C]

This is a huge step in forward for our country. I'm buying a big ass American flag today after work. For the first time in my life, I can happily say I'm proud to be American. We are a real country now.

I'm elated about this day, never thought I would see it.

It makes me happy too and I have no reason to care!

 

[Aaron Smith]

Great article:

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=714

Two myths must be shattered. First, the choice is not between this phony reform and the status quo. The "reform" merely puts makeup on the status quo. The free market is the real alternative.

Second, the free market couldn't have created the medical mess because there has been no free market in medicine. For generations government has colluded with the medical profession and the insurance industry to force-feed us the system we have today.

 

[Joematthews]

Not again Aaron Free market module for healthcare doesn't work succesfully ANYWHERE else. Socialised healthcare does. Doesn't mean it's perfect, but it's better than "untested".

 

[John_C]

What is it with people and this mythical "free market will give everyone rimjobs whenever they want?"

As Joe says, can you think of a country with a successful free market healthcare system? can you think of a country with a successful socialised healthcare system?
from those two questions, what is the logical conclusion?

 

[coldthrn]

I could see a free market health care system aiding natural selection. The ones who cant pay, dead. Especially when it comes to delivery of babies. Only the ones who have economic stability would survive. Not sure that's the kind of world I would want to live in.