Angry rant about people devaluing studio time

[[UEAK]Clowd]

I usually try not to get too upset over "state of the industry" type things because it's not like I went into this without knowing about it,

but...what the fuck is it with these kids that will do a full length for 400 dollars?

I hate to break it to you, but just because you downloaded a copy of cubase and superior drummer on piratebay doesn't mean you are a producer.

but the bands don't know any better most of the time so then when people with actual skill, knowledge, and talent(not to mention thousands of dollars worth of actual legitimate software and gear) come along and try to get some actual money for what is hard work that took a long time to be proficient at, it's extremely difficult or in some cases impossible.

Not that we all didn't know this already but I was just talking to the owner of a "label" and it made me want to stab myself in the face. Some people are a straight fucking joke.

 

[K Odell]

Amen!

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

lmao... literally by coincidence I just happened upon this:

Trebsit Studios
Recordings $20 a song fully mastered contact us if you're interested.




.... seriously dude?

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

lmao... literally by coincidence I just happened upon this:

Trebsit Studios
Recordings $20 a song fully mastered contact us if you're interested.




.... seriously dude?

Holy shit. The dude also offers music videos for $100, design for $5 (whatever the fuck that means) and, this is the best part, a package deal including a full-length album, 20 CD copies, a music video, album design and band promos for a grand total of $250.

This is just plain fucked up.

 

[guitarguru777]

I can relate to what the guy is doing.

Right now I do 10 songs for $1000 flat. I am just getting started and still working out of my in home studio. As I expand and get better at what I do rates will go up for sure.

Now I am not saying what hes doing is right. Cause thats just WAYYYYY to fucking cheap.

 

[joelplagues]

How many days do you spend tracking guru?

my rates would probably sit close to yours if I didn't have to hire a studio for drum recording but still, I think you should be charging a little more.

that kid is an extreme joke. A guy around my parts was charging bands like 50 bucks a song and 100 for mastering. the dude's mixes suck! how the fuck can he charge more for mastering without probably even knowing what mastering actually is. :Smug:

 

[Morgan C]

Holy shit. The dude also offers music videos for $100, design for $5 (whatever the fuck that means) and, this is the best part, a package deal including a full-length album, 20 CD copies, a music video, album design and band promos for a grand total of $250.

This is just plain fucked up.

And this is what it sounds like:
[SOUNDCLOUD]http://soundcloud.com/matttisbert/bottom-feeder-pause-and-rewind?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=facebook&utm_content=http%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fmatttisbert%2Fbottom-feeder-pause-and-rewind[/SOUNDCLOUD]

 

[006]

^

 

[joelplagues]

And this is what it sounds like:
[SOUNDCLOUD]http://soundcloud.com/matttisbert/bottom-feeder-pause-and-rewind?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=share&utm_medium=facebook&utm_content=http%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fmatttisbert%2Fbottom-feeder-pause-and-rewind[/SOUNDCLOUD]

OUCHHHH!!!! FUCK!

I'd say give me a warning next time but I guess I should have known to turn down after seeing his prices.

 

[Mattayus]

I can relate to what the guy is doing.

Right now I do 10 songs for $1000 flat. I am just getting started and still working out of my in home studio. As I expand and get better at what I do rates will go up for sure.

Now I am not saying what hes doing is right. Cause thats just WAYYYYY to fucking cheap.

Yeah I'm the same man, getting started you kind of have to "undercut" the big guys in your area, since you don't have a reputation yet you have to win them over on price.

But yeah... There's a fine line between being an attractive prospect, and looking cheap. If you have a modest set up, not a huge background/portfolio and don't even have your own space to track bands then you have to charge what you think you can get away with I guess. It doesn't matter about your experience or skill level, people seem to take one look at your M.O. and make a judgement.

However... those prices just mean that the person a) Doesn't take the industry seriously, b) doesn't take THEMSELVES seriously, and c) Isn't really interested in the quality of work they provide for the client.

 

[LeSedna]

Well, in that condition, I'd say you could let him charge $20 a song

 

[AdamG94]

I would bet my left ball that the kids doing full lengths for $400 are still living at home with mummy and daddy, they don't have a job, still go to school and to them $400 is a lot of money. And let's be honest, they're doing work for small time bands in the same living at home with mummy and daddy situation, that couldn't afford to pay most of your studio rates anyway.

Also, why the fuck did I just listen to that whole song? It was god awful

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

No matter how much you justify undercutting the rates in the industry, it will affect how the potential clients respond to more "normal" rates. It doesn't matter whether they are young, cheap-ass bands or not. I don't own a tracking space, yet I can't charge such ridiculously low prices if I want to eat something tomorrow and get the rent paid.

If you don't think your work justifies charging a reasonable amount of money to support doing it professionally, why do you have to advertise your services on the web as professional in the first place?

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

I just stumbled upon this one: http://www.onemillionmangos.com/

"Pay what you want" recording studio.

 

[::XeS::]

Anyway I think that if a band of kids wanna pay 20$/song...I definitely wouldn't work with them.
I mean, bands and cheap producers get both what they deserve. I don't think that a good local band would go to record at these shitty places.
Sometimes I am tempted to lower my rates, trying to get more clients...but c'mon... I spent lot of money in equipment, mics, softwares,etc... why should I charge less money? My time is not a gift and also my equipment...If I have to invest in equipment, work hard, for 10$/song...I should probably make more money selling all my stuff

 

[Fragle]

I can relate to what the guy is doing.

Right now I do 10 songs for $1000 flat. I am just getting started and still working out of my in home studio. As I expand and get better at what I do rates will go up for sure.

Now I am not saying what hes doing is right. Cause thats just WAYYYYY to fucking cheap.

my thoughts exactly. last full length i did ended up at around 1k plus drumtracking studio expenses. might not be a whole lot when compared to bigger studios, but then again, i'm mostly working with local bands and 1k is quite some money for them, i'm not running this as my main business, and i put basically all the money back in the studio for gear, treatment etc...as the quality increases the rates will go up.
while i do understand how many of you guys feel about this subject, there's just no point in starting out with 300€/day. in the end, you get what you pay for, and i know that guys in that pricerange will have better gear, more experience, and will deliver a better product in the end. i charge what i think is a fair price for the quality i deliver.
having that said, i'm the most expensive guy in my area....but people know that their stuff will sound much much better than with the other local guys, hence i'm getting booked frequently...thank god

also, 20$/song is just ridiculous. but once again....you get what you pay for. the clip above proves that nicely

 

[LeSedna]

I just stumbled upon this one: http://www.onemillionmangos.com/

"Pay what you want" recording studio.

What the fuck... Seriously !

 

[Ermz]

The thing to blame here is the availability of cheap recording equipment. People will always look to capitalize on something, or oversaturate a market that's easy to break into. The thing that has let everybody and their dog become a bonafide 'producer' is the ability to buy gear that lets them record a full length record with virtually no overhead.

The only thing you can hope to do, going into the future, is develop a reputation for quality of work, rather than affordability. There will always be that slice of artists who care and want to make a good-sounding record. In many ways the kids do you a favor, because they burn their artists so hard that it becomes a reality check. They begin to understand WHY a record costs as much as it does to make, and why it takes as long as it does.

We've had discussions on the cyclical nature of this before though. What it boils down to is that once those '$20 per song tracked/mixed/mastered' guys leave their parents' houses, they find a world of real-life overheads pushing them down. When they raise their rates to feasible proportions they find that the next generation of bedroom kids is now ready to poach THEIR client base with $20 per-song recordings. Thus they've hurt their own livelihood, and ultimately will either go broke or change careers. These people rarely last in the industry. The problem is that you have this self-perpetuating pattern of undercutting that doesn't lead to a sustainable career for anyone apart from those who are extremely good at what they do and command the rates they charge successfully.

Ultimately boils down to: be awesome or GTFO.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

Ultimately boils down to: be awesome or GTFO.

Words to live by

 

[HandsOfDespair]

I have a funny anecdote about this.

A couple of months ago I met a guy at my shitty day job ( grocery store), we talked a bit and he told me he was starting his studio like me, so it was a cool coincidence. He told me he had an house so he was able to record everything including drums in his basement. So we agreed that because I had a lot more experience than him I could help him and show him stuff, and I could use his studio in exchange.

Well the fact is I never used his studio because I just can't stand him. He was directly the kind of guy we're talking in this thread, he told me that he would leave the grocery store in the new few weeks just to live off recording bands, and doing albums for 250$. Jesus Christ the guy didn't even know what was a compressor neither an EQ. I once went to his studio (treated and everything because his father paid for everything), trying to show him stuff and he wasn't even listening. He was always telling me that he could soon just live off his studio even if I told him that only few people can live off it and it comes after a lot of time of practice, but he just wasn't listening.

He asked me a lot of times after that to come again in his studio but I always found excuses, then he got fired from the grocery store last week and he deleted me from his facebook.

The point is, don't get mad about people who offer albums for 200$, bands with some intelligence left will know that at this price the studio plain suck.