Any one here religious?

slashvanyoung said:
Agnostic atheist.

I can't wholeheartedly deny the existence of a higher deity as I can't (and never will be able to) disprove an existence on levels that evade my human cognitive system.

And that's exactly the reason for the answer to this being ultimately irrelevant for my life.

Textbook-atheist dogmas are therefore as ignorant IMHO as textbook-theists.
Click to expand...

:) Exactly what I think too.
 
Agnostic Catholic. Not like I had a choice in the Catholic part, it's pretty much forced on you from birth.
Spent 13 years in the Catholic school system. Kinda is what caused me to stray and question. So much bullshit, but some good points at the same time.

I'd love to see some real evidence of a 'god' or 'creator' someday. That would be sweet. Unfortunately I don't see that ever happening.
 
Oh, true that. :D

I guess I should edit out the last sentence, as it simply does not make sense (but I'll keep it there in order for yours to do so).
 
Too many atheists are only open to whatever reasoning supports how they want to see the world. Many are in fact blind believers with a smattering of logic stretched over the top, driven by emotion but too proud to admit it to themselves and therefore no better than their religious counterparts. However, as a core philosophy, irrelevant of the actual people who follow it, i would say it is "better" than religion.

But, the Christians downstairs give me free toasties and pancakes and ask nothing in return, so whatever they're thinking, it's working for me!

edit: this is NOT a slur on atheism and i am not disagreeing with any of the basic tenets of atheism.
 
I come from a Macedonian Orthodox upbringing and can confidently say I'm religious. Though not in the typical sense. I believe in a god, of which I'm not sure, and I believe there's place for science and god to co-exist IMO of course. I pray and do most of the other stuff and what not.

Now on the metal thing, nah not at all, metal could bug me less for the people in it who are atheist satanic or whatever, to each their own. My family who is whole hearted religious doesn't care about it either. They know I have a good head on my shoulders, and that seems to matter most.

So meh, it's all good as long as you don't harm or annoy others. Sadly.. Christian recruiting fucked this up royally..
 
skeksis268 said:
Too many atheists are only open to whatever reasoning supports how they want to see the world. Many are in fact blind believers with a smattering of logic stretched over the top, driven by emotion but too proud to admit it to themselves and therefore no better than their religious counterparts. However, as a core philosophy, irrelevant of the actual people who follow it, i would say it is "better" than religion.

But, the Christians downstairs give me free toasties and pancakes and ask nothing in return, so whatever they're thinking, it's working for me!

edit: this is NOT a slur on atheism and i am not disagreeing with any of the basic tenets of atheism.
Click to expand...

all your remarks say to me is that you've met shitty atheists, and that you live over nice christians. both exist... surprise, surprise.

neither is necessarily normative of those sharing their world views.

my parents are nice christians... my mom comes over and cooks for all my clients. and many of my clients are crappy atheists, in that they say they are unmovable from their position, no matter what may come to pass. truly normative atheists are never that certain... they are more of a like mind to scientists.... they believe what they believe based on the preponderance of the evidence, but should that balance tilt the other way, they will change their beliefs.

the problem with almost all christians is the same as that with shit atheists... they are unwilling to budge, or even conceive of any circumstance in which they might.
 
"And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence." ~ Bertrand Russell


^^^
That's so true, that's why Christians shit me... I don't care who believes what, they should be allowed and encouraged to think and chose for themselves. I HIGHLY doubt, that with the existence of god, all those who don't believe etc will be smoten and what not.

Isn't god all loving and all forgiving? FFS... :S

Sorry... for a religious person, the PEOPLE behind it shit me to tears!
I like to read and learn about Jesus, the person, and what he did and tried to teach. I don't see myself straying down any wrong path as a person when simply taking on good morals and good ways of treating others etc. And I don't see how as an atheist you could not do the same thing :)
 
I'm still not sure, sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not... A few months ago I got really depressed though, those few weeks were when I started feeling like turning to religion :( I felt like total shit, I just didn't care about anything, I just felt absolute nothing. But I wouldn't say I am a religious person :D
 
Melb_shredder said:
"And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence." ~ Bertrand Russell


^^^
That's so true, that's why Christians shit me... I don't care who believes what, they should be allowed and encouraged to think and chose for themselves. I HIGHLY doubt, that with the existence of god, all those who don't believe etc will be smoten and what not.

Isn't god all loving and all forgiving? FFS... :S

Sorry... for a religious person, the PEOPLE behind it shit me to tears!
I like to read and learn about Jesus, the person, and what he did and tried to teach. I don't see myself straying down any wrong path as a person when simply taking on good morals and good ways of treating others etc. And I don't see how as an atheist you could not do the same thing :)
Click to expand...

please use the quote button when quoting another poster. i dislike equally not knowing who someone is quoting and having to search a whole thread for it, and i do having my own quotes... even quotes of quotes, not properly tagged. that's what the quote button is for... you can still delete all the bits you don't want to quote.
 
James Murphy said:
well... you don't really seem to know much about atheism... because there are no "textbook atheist dogmas"... there is no atheist dogma at all.

sure, all atheist do not believe in god, generally speaking (see below for elaboration)... but that's not dogma. in fact, you seem shaky as to what "dogma" actually means as well.

Dogma

  • a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof
  • a doctrine or code of beliefs accepted as authoritative

nothing in atheism is declared true without proof, not even the existence or nonexistence of God. atheists don't make claims that god definitely doesn't exist, they merely state (and live their lives accordingly) that there is insufficient proof that god exists, so the presumption is that He does not.

and there is no "authority" for atheists.... there are respected speakers and authors, many of whom vary on loads of issues and points, but still manage to live without mutual proscription.

dogma is absolutely maladaptive and antithetical to free thought, and thus to atheism.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the lecture, James!

I do however know the meaning of either word, believe it or not.

Well, if you dissect my words under a microscope, I agree, I should have added a small detail:

The "textbook" dogmas of strong/positive atheists are IMHO as ignorant as theist-dogmas.

There is a broad spectrum to atheist ideology and if your are familiar with the often cited classification of atheists after William Rowe (see "The Cambridge Companion to Atheism" or "Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy"), then the term strong or positive atheist should be familiar to you.

Those people, at the extreme end of the spectrum, are the ones I'm talking about when I say "textbook-atheists". I'll agree, that phrase might no be perfect. I'm sorry, this is not my native tongue.

However... I stand by the essence of my statement.

Atheists are not a homogeneous mass, you have the extreme ends of the spectrum with strong and weak atheists and all shades in between.

Therefore, this generalization:

nothing in atheism is declared true without proof, not even the existence or nonexistence of God. atheists don't make claims that god definitely doesn't exist, they merely state (and live their lives accordingly) that there is insufficient proof that god exists, so the presumption is that He does not.
Click to expand...

.. is not valid in context of generally defining characteristics.

There are people who plainly and definitely deny the existence of a higher deity. People who consider themselves atheists and are considered to be atheists by others.

The characteristics you pointed out only apply to one fraction of the "atheist mass". The ones Rowe considers to be "weak" or "negative" atheists, borderline agnostics so to say.

Dogma

* a doctrine or code of beliefs accepted as authoritative
Click to expand...

I don't see why the doctrine of strong atheists doesn't qualify for dogmas under that criteria. They deny the existence of god and accept this believe as authoritative. And because they do, they live their lives accordingly.

Authority doesn't have to be chained to individuals or a deity.

Authority, for strong atheists, might manifest in science or simply their subconsciously shaped views and horizon of values.

As always, a pleasure discussing with you, James! :)
 
Melb_shredder said:
"And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence." ~ Bertrand Russell


^^^
That's so true, that's why Christians shit me... I don't care who believes what, they should be allowed and encouraged to think and chose for themselves. I HIGHLY doubt, that with the existence of god, all those who don't believe etc will be smoten and what not.

Isn't god all loving and all forgiving? FFS... :S

Sorry... for a religious person, the PEOPLE behind it shit me to tears!
I like to read and learn about Jesus, the person, and what he did and tried to teach. I don't see myself straying down any wrong path as a person when simply taking on good morals and good ways of treating others etc. And I don't see how as an atheist you could not do the same thing :)
Click to expand...

Do you hate gays?
 
No not at all! They are all people with their own lives and choices. I have no issue with anyone being gay or anything like it. I'd feel a little weird if i was hit on by a gay dude, but no more than if it was a really ugly chick lol.

Look, in my eyes, everyone is gods children, so everyone should be able to be given the option to merely be a good person and treat others right. If you can do that, I think that's all that's expected.

JMO. YMMV...
 
James Murphy said:
all your remarks say to me is that you've met shitty atheists, and that you live over nice christians. both exist... surprise, surprise.

neither is necessarily normative of those sharing their world views.

my parents are nice christians... my mom comes over and cooks for all my clients. and many of my clients are crappy atheists, in that they say they are unmovable from their position, no matter what may come to pass. truly normative atheists are never that certain... they are more of a like mind to scientists.... they believe what we believe based on the preponderance of evidence, but should that balance tilt the other way, they will change their beliefs.

the problem with almost all christians is the same as that with shit atheists... they are unwilling to budge, or even conceive of any circumstance in which they might.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong, i know my fair share of shitty Christians and "good" atheists. I think agree with you on pretty much that whole post though :kickass:
 
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