i really liked that short story.... and if Ray Kurzweil is on track with his theory of "the singularity", it may be more relevant than Asimov could have known.
Any one here religious?
- Thread starter AllanD
- Start date
i really liked that short story.... and if Ray Kurzweil is on track with his theory of "the singularity", it may be more relevant than Asimov could have known.
Jevil
Pro Evolution Fucker
I believe in science and mother nature.
I'm trying to build a new religion based in paganism and science.
Loads of free sex and joy.
Any acolyte?
I'm trying to build a new religion based in paganism and science.
Loads of free sex and joy.
Any acolyte?
TheDriller
Member
Morgan C
MAX LOUD PRESETS¯\(°_o)/¯
I'm somewhat loathe to label myself an 'atheist', altho I'm not sure why. I guess it'd be the most appropriate label, but tbh..
^ is my attitude. God existing or not, he's not affecting my life in any noticeable way, so I don't see any point in wondering about whether he may or may not exist, especially since it's unprovable (for the time being..).
^ is my attitude. God existing or not, he's not affecting my life in any noticeable way, so I don't see any point in wondering about whether he may or may not exist, especially since it's unprovable (for the time being..).
Jevil
Pro Evolution Fucker
Does the world really need another religion?
I would say we actually need less religion
yeah, but mine is cool.
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
small following of acolytes, pagan beliefs with benefits (free shit)....why don;t you just call it a kvlt and not a religion?
StefTD
Member
+1 on everything Uladyne said.
I never, and I really mean never, had any "believing" moment in my whole life.
I was involved in a bad car crash once, almost broke my neck once and lost a few very good friends to drugs
but I never thought "oh god, please help me" or something like that, even when I was a little child and
I needed a lot of time to realize that some people "need" religion and that it shoudln't bother me, the only thing
I really dislike about religion are fundamentalists because for me, the only reason for religion
should be, to give people hope.
I never, and I really mean never, had any "believing" moment in my whole life.
I was involved in a bad car crash once, almost broke my neck once and lost a few very good friends to drugs
but I never thought "oh god, please help me" or something like that, even when I was a little child and
I needed a lot of time to realize that some people "need" religion and that it shoudln't bother me, the only thing
I really dislike about religion are fundamentalists because for me, the only reason for religion
should be, to give people hope.
Melb_shredder
Orpheus: Melodic Death
I think all I can gather together from this thread is that people don't particulary care about relgligion perse. It's the pushy christian types etc... I don't see people complain about most Asian religions. Why?? Because they teach about respect for ones body etc and care for others, they don't seem so busy trying to convert people etc. Just my .02 ofcourse. I accept pot heads, but that doesn't mean I should smoke pot or have them smoke in my face... Pretty much sums it up for me hehe!!
to all the religious moderates who've been posting in this thread so far... and i include the ones who are atheists but don't see the hurt in religion for people who want it....
i don't mind religion either, as long as no one, and i mean NO ONE, under any religious warrant whatsoever every tries to tell me what to do, or "god forbid" (i made a "funny"), comes to a position of power over me and exerts their authority to control me under religious pretense.
but there's a not-so-hard-to-hear "shoe drop" that happens when this position of religious moderation takes hold... it becomes "taboo" to criticize... and that is anathema to free thought, and a free society.
further, the consolations and comforts of religion may seem harmless to others, and indeed quite helpful to those seeking them... so no harm, no foul, right?
well... to a point.
and that point comes clear when those of religious bent seek such refuge in those comforts and consolations, that they neglect what they should be doing in the earthy realm... you know, the one where we all live and the only one we know for sure exists... such as that it brings others to neglect or harm... others to whom they are responsible in THIS life.
there are literally thousands of examples of this kind of insidious damage taking place daily throughout the world... most on a micro scale, but many on a macro level.
i don't propose anything to do about it... there may be, but i don't know what it is... but i do suggest you keep your eyes open for it when dealing with very religious people in anything for which the outcome is important enough to you that you want people looking after it that have THIS life in their minds... and not an unknown, unknowable, and very likely non-existent "afterlife" ruled over by an imaginary cosmic zombie.
i don't mind religion either, as long as no one, and i mean NO ONE, under any religious warrant whatsoever every tries to tell me what to do, or "god forbid" (i made a "funny"
), comes to a position of power over me and exerts their authority to control me under religious pretense.but there's a not-so-hard-to-hear "shoe drop" that happens when this position of religious moderation takes hold... it becomes "taboo" to criticize... and that is anathema to free thought, and a free society.
further, the consolations and comforts of religion may seem harmless to others, and indeed quite helpful to those seeking them... so no harm, no foul, right?
well... to a point.
and that point comes clear when those of religious bent seek such refuge in those comforts and consolations, that they neglect what they should be doing in the earthy realm... you know, the one where we all live and the only one we know for sure exists... such as that it brings others to neglect or harm... others to whom they are responsible in THIS life.
there are literally thousands of examples of this kind of insidious damage taking place daily throughout the world... most on a micro scale, but many on a macro level.
i don't propose anything to do about it... there may be, but i don't know what it is... but i do suggest you keep your eyes open for it when dealing with very religious people in anything for which the outcome is important enough to you that you want people looking after it that have THIS life in their minds... and not an unknown, unknowable, and very likely non-existent "afterlife" ruled over by an imaginary cosmic zombie.
It was all made up, why those people tend to think about how they are all so much above other living beigns on this planet(if anything human race is parasite but thats whole another story)? Human beings needed so called Gods for
a)controling less educated(well, let's just say stupid) masses
b)establishing moral code
c)obtaining material benefits from their acolytes(cults basically, we have so many now, if you look closely at what christian church, especially catholic is doing right now, at least in some countries, it fits just right into that one)
Let's go back to the roots of all religions, thousands of years ago and compare to religions we have now. Back then religion was made up to explain things they couldn't understand at all(due to their scientific ignorance) which we can perfectly explain nowdays. I really doubt they created all this religion stuff because they needed ,,caring father above,,. If you take close look at ancient religions, most(if not all) gods were vengeful(hell, we have that even in holy bible), didn't really care about fate of humanity, tried to manipulate fates of living beings on the planet for some enigmatic reasons. If you take a closer look at the hierarchy of ancient cultures we know from our history classes, or even some of the tribes we still have out there which are still cultivating their semi-savage rituals you could notice there's always someone - be it shaman, priest, whatever, that claims to be close with ,,god,, and tries to control people which are ,,not-so-close with god,,. This is one of main reasons for religion - control and manipulation. The worst thing is some of those religions tended to halt scientific progress, but that is logical, science endangers religion cause it has potential to reveal this bullshit, therefore they wanted to dampen it as much as they could.
It really doesn't take an atheist to come up with those conclusions, just some basic history classes and basic reasoning.
I won't even start with how many, many theists take their ,,holy scripts,, literally(,,if first few pages said there was god who made everything in few days and then he took a rest on the last day of the week then it IS what happened and thou shall not question it,,) instead of analysing them on higher level(yes, analysing text on level higher than literal is something they teach in fucking primary schools nowdays!). Even though I am an atheist I still think those texts are valuable piece of history(as are other serious writings from thousands of years ago) and therefore are worth analysing.
If we get onto topic of moral codes some might think religion is good, it is teaching kids moral codes so it has to be good right? Well right, but may I ask, why all this bullshit that comes with it? Killing is bad, stealing is bad, adultery is bad, and so on, but aren't those laws and rules we should get into our heads(well, we should at least) from our parents? Hell, in most even slightly civilised countries law regulations also forbid said things. So why do we keep polluting our children with all this nonsense like ,,thou shall not eat meat on fridays,, or ,,thou shall walk to the church every sunday,, etc, etc. We should want to implant moral values and codes into our children, not some made up bullshit from hundreds or thousands of years ago to make those religions look ,,more serious,, for people living back then. I believe we are living in times civilised enough(well, mostly) that we can agree that same moral values are, in general, common sense now, it's something we are(or at least should) suck up with milk from our mothers.
If anything, religion leans towards demoralising nowdays, Islam being perfect example, we had something like that with christianity also(crusades, etc), hell even nowdays, in some parts of our planet they are crucifying themselves(LOL) to prove their devotion. Question is, how does this serve humanity? If in a way that they are having chance to remove bad genes from the genepool(hello darwin's awards) they yeah, other than that?
I won't write much about c) because, well, it's thankfully not like that in all cases(but hell, I dare say it is in most, again, catholic church in mid-eastern europe comes up as an example, I know cause I live in mid-eastern europe). Instead, I will rant some about the need of having something after life people tend to have, and about having someone to look after them in their lives. I myself have accepted the fact that when I will die my remains will rot and I will be gone, cause I accept that I'm not that really above other living organisms on this planet, stuff is born and stuff dies, normal circle of life. Religious people tend not to accept it, they tend to think of themselves as above everything else on this planet(pretty egoistic in my opinion, given that some religions, not all, claim that animals have no souls). Given that we have solid proofs of dinosaur existence long before humankind, what happened to all those poor animals then? They all just ,,died,, there with no afterlife while ,,god,, was waiting for his ,,chosen,, race to gloriously emerge so they can die and come to his kingdom? Of course im generalising it just to christianity(cause I have most experience with it), but really, this is how most(if not all) religions work - they promise afterlife. Come to think if you analyse historic evidence you can say that belief in afterlife and act of burying dead had no roots in religion. Since the most primal religions(worshipping rocks and trees) were all built around nature, afterlife belief seems to have no connection to the first religions. If anything it seems to be incorporated into more modern religions to make them even stronger.
And last part of my rant(finally eh?) is the so popular nowdays science vs religion thing. Well first of all I find creationism hilarious(yes, I said it) cause it's basically same shit as theism wrapped with diffrent packcage so it would attempt to reach modern people(which are in general smarter, or more educated than majority of people from thousands of years ago). It's really funny that before there was no creationism(as it is in it's current form, where it tries to disconnect from any religion in particular but tries to claim that there is being called creator) before scientific revolutions of 20th and 21st century. Suddenly people trying to convert non-believers found themselves cornered as they realised their old-fashioned bullshit won't convince modern people so they had to made up another bullshit which is basically same thing, but steals scientific knowledge(notice how all those creationists in their debates come up with all this stuff that was discovered,examined or proven by science and claim them for their arguments). Modern civilisation is endangering the old order of theistic systems and they understand this.
a)controling less educated(well, let's just say stupid) masses
b)establishing moral code
c)obtaining material benefits from their acolytes(cults basically, we have so many now, if you look closely at what christian church, especially catholic is doing right now, at least in some countries, it fits just right into that one)
Let's go back to the roots of all religions, thousands of years ago and compare to religions we have now. Back then religion was made up to explain things they couldn't understand at all(due to their scientific ignorance) which we can perfectly explain nowdays. I really doubt they created all this religion stuff because they needed ,,caring father above,,. If you take close look at ancient religions, most(if not all) gods were vengeful(hell, we have that even in holy bible), didn't really care about fate of humanity, tried to manipulate fates of living beings on the planet for some enigmatic reasons. If you take a closer look at the hierarchy of ancient cultures we know from our history classes, or even some of the tribes we still have out there which are still cultivating their semi-savage rituals you could notice there's always someone - be it shaman, priest, whatever, that claims to be close with ,,god,, and tries to control people which are ,,not-so-close with god,,. This is one of main reasons for religion - control and manipulation. The worst thing is some of those religions tended to halt scientific progress, but that is logical, science endangers religion cause it has potential to reveal this bullshit, therefore they wanted to dampen it as much as they could.
It really doesn't take an atheist to come up with those conclusions, just some basic history classes and basic reasoning.
I won't even start with how many, many theists take their ,,holy scripts,, literally(,,if first few pages said there was god who made everything in few days and then he took a rest on the last day of the week then it IS what happened and thou shall not question it,,) instead of analysing them on higher level(yes, analysing text on level higher than literal is something they teach in fucking primary schools nowdays!). Even though I am an atheist I still think those texts are valuable piece of history(as are other serious writings from thousands of years ago) and therefore are worth analysing.
If we get onto topic of moral codes some might think religion is good, it is teaching kids moral codes so it has to be good right? Well right, but may I ask, why all this bullshit that comes with it? Killing is bad, stealing is bad, adultery is bad, and so on, but aren't those laws and rules we should get into our heads(well, we should at least) from our parents? Hell, in most even slightly civilised countries law regulations also forbid said things. So why do we keep polluting our children with all this nonsense like ,,thou shall not eat meat on fridays,, or ,,thou shall walk to the church every sunday,, etc, etc. We should want to implant moral values and codes into our children, not some made up bullshit from hundreds or thousands of years ago to make those religions look ,,more serious,, for people living back then. I believe we are living in times civilised enough(well, mostly) that we can agree that same moral values are, in general, common sense now, it's something we are(or at least should) suck up with milk from our mothers.
If anything, religion leans towards demoralising nowdays, Islam being perfect example, we had something like that with christianity also(crusades, etc), hell even nowdays, in some parts of our planet they are crucifying themselves(LOL) to prove their devotion. Question is, how does this serve humanity? If in a way that they are having chance to remove bad genes from the genepool(hello darwin's awards) they yeah, other than that?
I won't write much about c) because, well, it's thankfully not like that in all cases(but hell, I dare say it is in most, again, catholic church in mid-eastern europe comes up as an example, I know cause I live in mid-eastern europe). Instead, I will rant some about the need of having something after life people tend to have, and about having someone to look after them in their lives. I myself have accepted the fact that when I will die my remains will rot and I will be gone, cause I accept that I'm not that really above other living organisms on this planet, stuff is born and stuff dies, normal circle of life. Religious people tend not to accept it, they tend to think of themselves as above everything else on this planet(pretty egoistic in my opinion, given that some religions, not all, claim that animals have no souls). Given that we have solid proofs of dinosaur existence long before humankind, what happened to all those poor animals then? They all just ,,died,, there with no afterlife while ,,god,, was waiting for his ,,chosen,, race to gloriously emerge so they can die and come to his kingdom? Of course im generalising it just to christianity(cause I have most experience with it), but really, this is how most(if not all) religions work - they promise afterlife. Come to think if you analyse historic evidence you can say that belief in afterlife and act of burying dead had no roots in religion. Since the most primal religions(worshipping rocks and trees) were all built around nature, afterlife belief seems to have no connection to the first religions. If anything it seems to be incorporated into more modern religions to make them even stronger.
And last part of my rant(finally eh?) is the so popular nowdays science vs religion thing. Well first of all I find creationism hilarious(yes, I said it) cause it's basically same shit as theism wrapped with diffrent packcage so it would attempt to reach modern people(which are in general smarter, or more educated than majority of people from thousands of years ago). It's really funny that before there was no creationism(as it is in it's current form, where it tries to disconnect from any religion in particular but tries to claim that there is being called creator) before scientific revolutions of 20th and 21st century. Suddenly people trying to convert non-believers found themselves cornered as they realised their old-fashioned bullshit won't convince modern people so they had to made up another bullshit which is basically same thing, but steals scientific knowledge(notice how all those creationists in their debates come up with all this stuff that was discovered,examined or proven by science and claim them for their arguments). Modern civilisation is endangering the old order of theistic systems and they understand this.
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
Theists "Believe" because they are to weak minded to think for themselves, either because they are scared or are too lazy to live, the literally need some greater power to tell them how to live their life.
And I should add, as was said before, people take the bible way too literally, its a metaphor i mean for example:
Genesis 2:4-7
When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- 5 and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no man to work the ground,- 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground- 7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
somehow people will believe that as a more true fact than the scientific discoveries that put man on the moon, that made computers, that made medical advancements that save lives. The bible does nothing but make huge claims, some which are romanticized to the point of being a pure metaphor, without any accounts of facts, proof or even a theory to explain why certain things happen the way they did. oh the bible says "god waved his hand and said let their be light" and the sun just came out of nothing". The bible says it so it must be true. I couldn't contort my brain enough to even remotely believe that.
And I should add, as was said before, people take the bible way too literally, its a metaphor i mean for example:
Genesis 2:4-7
When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- 5 and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no man to work the ground,- 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground- 7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
somehow people will believe that as a more true fact than the scientific discoveries that put man on the moon, that made computers, that made medical advancements that save lives. The bible does nothing but make huge claims, some which are romanticized to the point of being a pure metaphor, without any accounts of facts, proof or even a theory to explain why certain things happen the way they did. oh the bible says "god waved his hand and said let their be light" and the sun just came out of nothing". The bible says it so it must be true. I couldn't contort my brain enough to even remotely believe that.
Russtopher
Member
I just finished reading "The Year of Living Biblically" by AJ Jacobs - funny book in which the author (an agnostic) attempts to live an entire year by following the Bible LITERALLY. Full beard, stoning people, animal sacrifice, the whole 9 yards.
He does a good job of pointing out all the contradictory statements in the Bible, and discusses how fragmented some sections of society get over it. I enjoyed it, because it's not preachy in the least, rather it's goal was to see if immersing himself in "religion" would turn him religious, against his better beliefs.
Spoiler alert - it didn't.
He does a good job of pointing out all the contradictory statements in the Bible, and discusses how fragmented some sections of society get over it. I enjoyed it, because it's not preachy in the least, rather it's goal was to see if immersing himself in "religion" would turn him religious, against his better beliefs.
Spoiler alert - it didn't.
And to clarify since my rant was rather aggresive, I myself have no problems at all with people who have spiritual needs of this sort, for weak minded or not it's yet another thing that distinguishes us from animals(we don't live just to hunt food, reproduce and die,at least we shouldn't). What I have problem with is that they are still using methods from lots of years ago designed for dumb people, and that we have people living in modern society, educated that buy this shit.
One can fulfill their spiritual needs without associating with all this nonsense that comes in together with religion.
One can fulfill their spiritual needs without associating with all this nonsense that comes in together with religion.
kaomao
Member
Agnostic means you don't care if god exists or not.
There's no "agnostic atheist" or "agnostisc christian" seriously that's what it means
I laugh when I read in some dictionary "agnostic atheist".
sorry guys but I had to write it: agnostic is agnostic.
There's no "agnostic atheist" or "agnostisc christian" seriously that's what it means
I laugh when I read in some dictionary "agnostic atheist".
sorry guys but I had to write it: agnostic is agnostic.
no Maurizio, you're wrong... being agnostic is not to say that one doesn't care if god exists.... it's not about indifference, it's about uncertainty.
ag·nos·tic
n.
1.
a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.
under the correct definition, agnosticism can certainly exist in degrees... and lean one way or the other.
thus you have atheist-leaning agnostics, and theism-leaning agnostics... as well as those that are squarely on the fence.
that's what people are referring to here.
TheWinterSnow
Den Mørke Natt
I noticed that there are many people that omit parts of the bible from their beliefs if they don't like. There was youtube vid of a theist who was claiming that objective morality only comes from the bible and atheists cannot have "correct" morals, while at the same time from his words was proving that his own set of moral and beliefs contradicted the "objective moral code" of the same bible he was preaching. There are so many thiests mainly christians that believe that eating meat is wrong, that animal sacrifice is wrong, that its okay to be a homosexual or to not be a virgin before you marry and that work on sunday, but as the bible says, you have to animal sacrifice to god, if you are gay you shall be punished to death, if you are not a virgin before your wedding, you shall be sentenced to death, or if you work on sabbath day, the sentence is death. Most of those preaching are in Leviticus in the fucking bible, clear as day, but so many Christians seem to not want to talk about it.
In all honesty the real Christians that follow the bible exactly word for word are completely hated. As much as everybody hates Sheerly Phelps and the Westboro Baptist church, they actually follow the bible the way it is truly written.
+1. As much as the argument goes back and forth that we are animal, we are better than animals, I will say that I stand neutral, we do have the intellectual ability over animals however that does not meant that we are superior, but the message is that we should use our gifted abilities to live the greatest life possible, we do much more than mate feed kill repeat and we should take advantage over that. Yes the bibles and other religions were created to educate the uneducated its sad to see that still today in an educated world that people are still believing what the bible says and hold it as fact. It either shows how well the education systems are or exactly how "evolved" we humans really are.
TravisW
Member
El_Gato
I love this gain
DanLights
Santa Hat Forever
I go agnostic, Murhpy defined exactly what I think an agnostic is, and what I am.
I simply find dumb and pointless to "believe" in anything when you don't "know", as in have proof. "It seems to me that documentary isn't fake, I think it's real". How? by a hunch? you got convinced by words on a tv? that isn't proof, and saying "he doesn't exist" or "I think he does exist" is just following a hunch, which makes no point and helps absolutely nothing to making it true or false.
And face it, we'll never have proof that god DOESN'T exist as much as we'll never prove he does.
But yeah, El gato's comment is just perfect, we're in the 21st century for fuck's sake, why do people still believe in fairies and actually spend precious time and money on absolutely pointless activities that give no gain? (going to church, paying the church, making meetings and praying all together, blablabla)
I simply find dumb and pointless to "believe" in anything when you don't "know", as in have proof. "It seems to me that documentary isn't fake, I think it's real". How? by a hunch? you got convinced by words on a tv? that isn't proof, and saying "he doesn't exist" or "I think he does exist" is just following a hunch, which makes no point and helps absolutely nothing to making it true or false.
And face it, we'll never have proof that god DOESN'T exist as much as we'll never prove he does.
But yeah, El gato's comment is just perfect, we're in the 21st century for fuck's sake, why do people still believe in fairies and actually spend precious time and money on absolutely pointless activities that give no gain? (going to church, paying the church, making meetings and praying all together, blablabla)
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