Are humans inherently evil?

[Richard Mongler]

Humans are inherently animal that's the bottom line. Evil, morality, these are just things we create to separate ourselves form the animals we know deep down we are. We inherently do what we think is best for ourselves, what WE want. We may indeed want to kill someone, or sleep with our friends girlfriend or nick a car, whatever the hell it is, it is what WE want. And what we want may be interpreted as evil, but this is a human interpretation. Do we call it murder when a lion kills a rival lion? Do we call it rape when a male animal mates with female who clearly doesn't feel like it (My head hurts/I'm tired)? NO. Humans are not inherently evil, they are inherently an animal that feels the same desires, has the same instincts, plus a few more emotions and inhibitions due to the higher level of brain function we are lucky (or unlucky) enough to possess.

Trying to compare human beings to animals is really a bad example. Since humans are pretty unique.

 

[Einherjar86]

Milgram's obedience experiment anyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Very interesting. Basically, 65% of us would shock someone to death if encouraged to by an authority figure, despite your own personal morals.

That's forced attrition. It's unfair because of the threat of consequences. Plenty of people place themselves ahead of others and still would feel terrible about doing something harmful to another person. This kind of decision is capable of driving a person insane. It's completely understandable that people might abandon their morals in the face of their own mortality.

Humans are inherently animal that's the bottom line. Evil, morality, these are just things we create to separate ourselves form the animals we know deep down we are. We inherently do what we think is best for ourselves, what WE want. We may indeed want to kill someone, or sleep with our friends girlfriend or nick a car, whatever the hell it is, it is what WE want. And what we want may be interpreted as evil, but this is a human interpretation. Do we call it murder when a lion kills a rival lion? Do we call it rape when a male animal mates with female who clearly doesn't feel like it (My head hurts/I'm tired)? NO. Humans are not inherently evil, they are inherently an animal that feels the same desires, has the same instincts, plus a few more emotions and inhibitions due to the higher level of brain function we are lucky (or unlucky) enough to possess.

Humans are animals, but we have mental capabilities beyond most wild animals. We may have created the notion of evil, but the fact that we are able to create that idea demonstrates our superiority. Furthermore, we have the capability to argue and debate over whether or not what we do is "evil."

 

[razoredge]

Come on dude, it has everything to do with consequences and social programming. If some action has been established to be evil in society, then it is, and vice versa. People might think that throwing people to death with stones and tormenting the jews is evil, but when conditioned right(ie nazi germani or arab countries), it will not cause remorse.

The western world (in general) on the other hand has conditioned people to be "soft" consuming-crazed slabs with very critical attitudes towards any discrimination, which is why you dont want to rip ladies' panties off. You may think that you wouldnt do it without consequences, but thats because growing up in a human-rights centered society has given you an unconscious disposition to be wary of doing that stuff.

That may be your notion but it is not mine. I am not programmed and swing far off the typical brainwave of the rest of you sheep....

So I hope you all realize you are speaking of yourselfs or speaking for some idea... possibly implanted due to modern denial factors that at least some humans can be rational and consider others in thier actions.... not just "oh gee, I'll get in trouble" "me, me, me"

There are no orphans amounst the wolf

 

[TurboDestructor]

I'm not saying that humans are just like any other animal, but you put a human in a life-threatening situation and you will see their deeper instincts show through. The question is not what humans try to be, the question is what they inherently are. And what we inherently are is animals, you can't really argue with that. I'm not saying that we operate on the same basic level as most animals, I'm saying that we are animals. And when you strip away the "evil", and the "morality", that is what lies beneath. No we are not inherently evil, but nor are we inherently "good", we are inherently "animal". Thats simply what I think. and more than that, its a biological fact.

 

[razoredge]

We are far off the beaten path of animal and in fact are the most twisted of animals, as an entire population. There is alot of mutated brains out there, much less common amounst other animals. But natural selection weeds out the illnesses. They sense it, senses long forgot by mankind. Fat chance of finding a serial killer antelope. Bear and elephants have been known to go stark raving mad however, in bear it was found to be a few middle age males and in elephants young males....... go figure. It should also be noticed that both species are also at the top of their food chain or absent of many preditors. Would probably be worse if they grew up on a diet of violent movies, fucked up music lyrics and macho video games

 

[Blowtus]

most twisted / noble / intelligent / bigoted / whatever fucking spin you want to put on it.

Cows are too busy eating grass and being eaten to suffer existential crises. I guess if the world seems like a troubling place to you then a life with more distinct and obvious troubles would seem like a good thing. I take our inventive capacity for trouble to be one facet of 'a good thing'.

 

[razoredge]

No we are not bigoted, there is an prime example of a developed word or thought. Go find me a species of animal that does not protect its territory and family, and decided to hang out with another species, or welcome another family onto its feeding grounds in the case of carnivores.

Intellegence ties in with our ability to turn the eyes away from the faults of our inventiveness in what way ? Thoughtlessness or economics ? and in what way economics... todays cash grab ?

 

[Cythraul]

That may be your notion but it is not mine. I am not programmed and swing far off the typical brainwave of the rest of you sheep....

Oh, you're immune to socialization? Well aren't you special.

 

[razoredge]

Oh, you're immune to socialization? Well aren't you special.

That may be your notion but it is not mine.

 

[Cythraul]

That may be your notion but it is not mine.

So what is your notion and why should I find it compelling?

 

[razoredge]

This topic is old and five pages long. With that Im not concerned with compelling anyone that wants to ignore the evolution and individualism of the human mind and wants put it all on social conditioning as if some excuse for being deviant is natural (inherent). Yes some are diviant, yes others are not. The question revolved around humans as a whole. You can figure the rest out.

 

[Cythraul]

This topic is old and five pages long. With that Im not concerned with compelling anyone that wants to ignore the evolution and individualism of the human mind and wants put it all on social conditioning as if some excuse for being deviant is natural (inherent). Yes some are diviant, yes others are not. The question revolved around humans as a whole. You can figure the rest out.

One doesn't need to ignore the "evolution and individualism of the human mind" to disagree with at least what I take to be your view, which is that you are not "programmed" to a significant degree. The fact that you speak a language and function within a society is testament to the fact that you have been socialized, and have arguably been socialized with respect to morality to a significant degree. I wonder how you know that your moral intuitions seem so obvious to you not because you've been "programmed" but for some other reason. What makes you immune to the sort of socialization that the rest of us functioning members of society undergo from childhood? What makes you so goddamn special?

Your objection to the claim that your moral intuitions are largely the result of social inculcation basically boiled down to "Nuh-uh! Speak for yourselves! I'm an individual!" Yeah...way to knock 'em down, buddy.

 

[razoredge]

One doesn't need to ignore the "evolution and individualism of the human mind" to disagree with at least what I take to be your view, which is that you are not "programmed" to a significant degree. The fact that you speak a language and function within a society is testament to the fact that you have been socialized, and have arguably been socialized with respect to morality to a significant degree. I wonder how you know that your moral intuitions seem so obvious to you not because you've been "programmed" but for some other reason. What makes you immune to the sort of socialization that the rest of us functioning members of society undergo from childhood? What makes you so goddamn special?

Your objection to the claim that your moral intuitions are largely the result of social inculcation basically boiled down to "Nuh-uh! Speak for yourselves! I'm an individual!" Yeah...way to knock 'em down, buddy.

holy shit man, you having a bad week ? Or was your socialization derived from bitches ?

Why, because I have been around most of my life and found I rarely agree or find common ground on view points. Because I usually take all the evidence visible to me and draw my own conclusions. Because I have never wanted to tread on anyone in my entire life unless fucked with, which came in later years. Because my middle name is Special. Because no one will convince me that if I grew up in a society that ate toasted hands I would find them delicious. Because I have always repelled from gore and horror movies. Because its rare that a joke or even comedians make me laugh. Just because I can and do apply independent thought. Because Im not foolish enough to think compassion is learned by being pounded into our heads not a inherent ability. Because I dont think that if I grew up in the middle east that I would enjoy treating woman like an object and possession. Just because I want to knock em down.... buddie



find something important to get twisted about

 

[Blowtus]

Ever think maybe your value of 'independant thought' is a result of 'socialization' too?

 

[razoredge]

I think one might need to know me better and few do, I really have nothing more to say on the matter, I'm the one thats been walking this walk and cant explain the jagged path I take but I have always been on the outside looking in, never quite fitting in. Think, feel or believe what one may, its only through my eyes that I see.

 

[Cythraul]

holy shit man, you having a bad week ? Or was your socialization derived from bitches ?

Why, because I have been around most of my life and found I rarely agree or find common ground on view points. Because I usually take all the evidence visible to me and draw my own conclusions. Because I have never wanted to tread on anyone in my entire life unless fucked with, which came in later years. Because my middle name is Special. Because no one will convince me that if I grew up in a society that ate toasted hands I would find them delicious. Because I have always repelled from gore and horror movies. Because its rare that a joke or even comedians make me laugh. Just because I can and do apply independent thought. Because Im not foolish enough to think compassion is learned by being pounded into our heads not a inherent ability. Because I dont think that if I grew up in the middle east that I would enjoy treating woman like an object and possession. Just because I want to knock em down.... buddie



find something important to get twisted about

How about you actually argue against the points that were raised INSTEAD OF SIMPLY REPEATING THE SAME GODDAMN PROPOSITIONS THAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO JUSTIFY IN THE FIRST PLACE!? Do you have no idea how rational debate works or are you just plain fucking retarded? Maybe you should just fucking die.

 

[razoredge]

How about you actually argue against the points that were raised INSTEAD OF SIMPLY REPEATING THE SAME GODDAMN PROPOSITIONS THAT YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO JUSTIFY IN THE FIRST PLACE!? Do you have no idea how rational debate works or are you just plain fucking retarded? Maybe you should just fucking die.

Aw, dont cry. In case you missed it... again... the thread is well over a month old and 5 pages long. I have nothing to "debate" and fail to see what it is Im supposed to "justify". You think people cant possibly see past their society and I say bullshit. BFD, sucks to be you.

 

[monoxide_child]

most twisted / noble / intelligent / bigoted / whatever fucking spin you want to put on it.

Cows are too busy eating grass and being eaten to suffer existential crises. I guess if the world seems like a troubling place to you then a life with more distinct and obvious troubles would seem like a good thing. I take our inventive capacity for trouble to be one facet of 'a good thing'.

"ignorance is bliss" but it's only bliss because enlightnenment is hell, we're inheirently evil, but we have a problem with it because we're smarter than cows

 

[monoxide_child]

I'm not saying that humans are just like any other animal, but you put a human in a life-threatening situation and you will see their deeper instincts show through. The question is not what humans try to be, the question is what they inherently are. And what we inherently are is animals, you can't really argue with that. I'm not saying that we operate on the same basic level as most animals, I'm saying that we are animals. And when you strip away the "evil", and the "morality", that is what lies beneath. No we are not inherently evil, but nor are we inherently "good", we are inherently "animal". Thats simply what I think. and more than that, its a biological fact.

yes
exactly
we're evil in the same way a wolf is evil, we just have a problem with it just because we're smart enough to realize we're evil, a wolf doesn't feel any kind of guilt when he eats a human

 

[monoxide_child]

No we are not bigoted, there is an prime example of a developed word or thought. Go find me a species of animal that does not protect its territory and family, and decided to hang out with another species, or welcome another family onto its feeding grounds in the case of carnivores.

yes, people are animals