Are Kiss metal?

[Erik]

well done. now say something vaguely articulate.

well at some point i can't TELL you why rainbow and deep purple have so incredibly much more to do with heavy metal than kiss ever did, you gotta LISTEN for yourself and obviously you seem incapable of analytical listening because otherwise you would not embarass yourself by making this thread

 

[Erik]

well that's besides the point, we're talking about their music style.

it's not beside the point because heavy metal by nature distances itself from the commercial bubble gum mentality of mainstream rock/pop bands like kiss

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

Ummm......Rainbow had Dio. KISS have.....Gene Simmons. Duh.

I'll listen to some material from all of these bands and make my own assessment. I'd be suprised if I determined KISS as being metal even in the sense you're suggesting, but you never know.

 

[Hammer of Might]

I'm not embarrassed in the least. I started a discussion - someone disagrees - oh no I have made a fool of myself because there is clearly something wrong with my ears.

I love both Rainbow and Deep Purple, and I would be the first to agree that they had a profound part to play in shaping heavy metal. And yes, no doubt a much bigger part than Kiss. The only reason I brought their names in is that MUSICALLY, a lot of Kiss's material is quite similar, and so why should they be banished from the "metal" genre - which is extremely broad - simply due to concepts you have that they are too commercial, too lyrically detached, or too simplistic.

 

[Erik]

why should they be banished from the "metal" genre - which is extremely broad - simply due to concepts you have that they are too commercial, too lyrically detached, or too simplistic.

it all boils down to this: kiss is "hard rock" at best, because they simply do not have any obvious traces of any distinguishing marks of heavy metal. they are as metal as poison, or limp bizkit, or bon jovi. you can listen to "stargazer" or "kill the king" or "highway star" or what the fuck ever and clearly pick out elements whether lyrical or musical that are absolutely instrumental to heavy metal bands even today, and that is just not going to happen with kiss because they are 100% based in ROCK and POP territory and has NOTHING to do with metal.

any elements of metal that also happen to appear in kiss' music are coincidences, there because metal has a common lineage, stemming from blues/rock music, but the similarities end right the fuck there. do you think iron maiden or judas priest or kreator or deströyer 666 are more likely to cite rainbow and deep purple or fucking kiss as an influence? RIGHT. kiss have nothing to do with metal

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

Based on your analysis.......'Creatures Of The Night' was released in '82. It's the '80s, metal is already solidly off the ground, you've got several albums from Maiden, Priest, etc. So........looks to me like that would just constitute some kind of trend following. They heard Priest or Maiden and thought "hey that's cool." To stay alive, pop bands have to change with the times. For KISS, they have so many 70's fanatics that they don't need to obviously......but....You say that 'Creatures of the Night' is kind of metal. Did 'Creatures Of The Night' represent a complete change in sound for them? Are they still doing the same stuff? Because......just my educated guess would be that they went back to the old style, maybe in the early 90's they had some "grunge" sounding songs on their albums, but that wouldn't mean they're grunge either.

Even IF that album was slightly metal (I'll listen to it), you can't argue that kiss are a heavy metal band based off of one album in the 80's.

 

[Erik]

Ummm......Rainbow had Dio. KISS have.....Gene Simmons. Duh.

haha

 

[Cold Gin]

um... the members of kiss publically state in interviews and whatnot that the only reason kiss exists is to make money? how much more commercial can you possibly get?

Exactly. So does Bon Jovi. Do does Iron Maiden. So does Judas Priest. And I guess everybody agrees that Maiden and JP are metal.

 

[Erik]

Exactly. So does Bon Jovi. Do does Iron Maiden. So does Judas Priest. And I guess everybody agrees that Maiden and JP are metal.

well, judas priest clearly lost it after about 1978 and went totally commercial, and while they were still metal it just wasn't honest after that

however i would like you to dig out a quote where iron maiden says "oh we do this for the money, and for the money only. we see iron maiden as strictly a business venture" because that's basically what gene is saying? actually, i don't even think rob and the boys ever went THAT far, priest most of the time held SOME kind of semblance of musical integrity

 

[Cold Gin]

you gotta LISTEN for yourself and obviously you seem incapable of analytical listening because otherwise you would not embarass yourself by making this thread

C´mon Erik. No thread here is embarassing. This is just for fun.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

KISS also did Disco. Does that mean they're a staple Disco band?

 

[Hammer of Might]

it all boils down to this: kiss is "hard rock" at best, because they simply do not have any obvious traces of any distinguishing marks of heavy metal. they are as metal as poison, or limp bizkit, or bon jovi. you can listen to "stargazer" or "kill the king" or "highway star" or what the fuck ever and clearly pick out elements whether lyrical or musical that are absolutely instrumental to heavy metal bands even today, and that is just not going to happen with kiss because they are 100% based in ROCK and POP territory and has NOTHING to do with metal.

any elements of metal that also happen to appear in kiss' music are coincidences, there because metal has a common lineage, stemming from blues/rock music, but the similarities end right the fuck there. do you think iron maiden or judas priest or kreator or deströyer 666 are more likely to cite rainbow and deep purple or fucking kiss as an influence? RIGHT. kiss have nothing to do with metal

Well you're the one who is not lsitening hard enough now if you say there is "NOTHING" in Kiss's music that is like heavy metal. I just don't see how you can say that in such an absolute way, when someone else already pointed out the fine line between metal and hard rock, which Kiss often cross.

And if you bothered to read one of my earlier posts, I said quite clearly that:

I love both Rainbow and Deep Purple, and I would be the first to agree that they had a profound part to play in shaping heavy metal. And yes, no doubt a much bigger part than Kiss.

So what - it's not all about what they influenced, it's about their OWN music, and to deny that their is ANYTHING 'metal' to many Kiss songs is ridiculous.

 

[Erik]

C´mon Erik. No thread here is embarassing. This is just for fun.

i guess

 

[Cold Gin]

Based on your analysis.......'Creatures Of The Night' was released in '82. It's the '80s, metal is already solidly off the ground, you've got several albums from Maiden, Priest, etc. So........looks to me like that would just constitute some kind of trend following. They heard Priest or Maiden and thought "hey that's cool." To stay alive, pop bands have to change with the times. For KISS, they have so many 70's fanatics that they don't need to obviously......but....You say that 'Creatures of the Night' is kind of metal. Did 'Creatures Of The Night' represent a complete change in sound for them? Are they still doing the same stuff? Because......just my educated guess would be that they went back to the old style, maybe in the early 90's they had some "grunge" sounding songs on their albums, but that wouldn't mean they're grunge either.

Even IF that album was slightly metal (I'll listen to it), you can't argue that kiss are a heavy metal band based off of one album in the 80's.

Fully agree with all you said. That is exactly why I think Kiss is not metal.

 

[Erik]

Well you're the one who is not lsitening hard enough now if you say there is "NOTHING" in Kiss's music that is like heavy metal. I just don't see how you can say that in such an absolute way, when someone else already pointed out the fine line between metal and hard rock, which Kiss often cross.

i already said there were some similarities, but that those are coincidental because kiss and heavy metal bands have common lineage in rock/blues. having some elements shared with metal does not a metal band make.

And if you bothered to read one of my earlier posts, I said quite clearly that:

I love both Rainbow and Deep Purple, and I would be the first to agree that they had a profound part to play in shaping heavy metal. And yes, no doubt a much bigger part than Kiss.

So what - it's not all about what they influenced, it's about their OWN music, and to deny that their is ANYTHING 'metal' to many Kiss songs is ridiculous.

well there is SOMETHING metal to a lot of things, if a fucking rapper samples "raining blood" that doesn't make it a metal song, just as little as whatever little traces of metal you could possibly find in kiss make them a metal band

 

[Hammer of Might]

C´mon Erik. No thread here is embarassing. This is just for fun.

Exactly. Some people here seem so used to responding in the short, sarcastic comments that seem so popular that when confronted with a more full bodied discussion they seem incapable of proper debate. Although this thread has got better now.

 

[Cold Gin]

well, judas priest clearly lost it after about 1978 and went totally commercial, and while they were still metal it just wasn't honest after that

however i would like you to dig out a quote where iron maiden says "oh we do this for the money, and for the money only. we see iron maiden as strictly a business venture" because that's basically what gene is saying? actually, i don't even think rob and the boys ever went THAT far, priest most of the time held SOME kind of semblance of musical integrity

Maybe Rob and his friends are smarter than Gene with their comments. But in the end, they want to make money, it is business.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

however i would like you to dig out a quote where iron maiden says "oh we do this for the money, and for the money only. we see iron maiden as strictly a business venture" because that's basically what gene is saying? actually, i don't even think rob and the boys ever went THAT far, priest most of the time held SOME kind of semblance of musical integrity

I'm not saying Iron Maiden are on the same level of KISS in terms of a business venture, but......

The making it very clear that THEY FUCKING HATE OZZY OSBOURNE AND FUCKING HATE FUCKING MTV AND FUCKING REALITY SHOWS AND FUCKING LAME MTV FUCKING PEOPLE AND FUCKING WHO THE FUCK CUT MY FUCKING PA FUCKING POWER and going on OzzFest. They can say it was all for the fans, but at the end of the day all I'm seeing is the $185,000 per-show check.

 

[Hammer of Might]

Based on your analysis.......'Creatures Of The Night' was released in '82. It's the '80s, metal is already solidly off the ground, you've got several albums from Maiden, Priest, etc. So........looks to me like that would just constitute some kind of trend following. They heard Priest or Maiden and thought "hey that's cool." To stay alive, pop bands have to change with the times. For KISS, they have so many 70's fanatics that they don't need to obviously......but....You say that 'Creatures of the Night' is kind of metal. Did 'Creatures Of The Night' represent a complete change in sound for them? Are they still doing the same stuff? Because......just my educated guess would be that they went back to the old style, maybe in the early 90's they had some "grunge" sounding songs on their albums, but that wouldn't mean they're grunge either.

Even IF that album was slightly metal (I'll listen to it), you can't argue that kiss are a heavy metal band based off of one album in the 80's.

I accept what you're saying here, and in this respect I agree they were never 'part' of the heavy metal 'scene'. As you effectively point out, they weren't trend setters, nor did they necessarily want to expand the box or add anything in particular to the direction of metal.

BUT - this is another point. All I made out in the first place is that MUSICALLY a lot of their material strongly resembles easy-listening, catchy heavy metal in a similar way that other early bands sounded, even if there wasn't the same sort of influence to the band. That's all.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

Maybe Rob and his friends are smarter than Gene with their comments. But in the end, they want to make money, it is business.

It's certainly true but KISS touring with worthless (even to fans) new material playing songs that are 30+ years old on a "reunion" tour that has been going almost ten years.....that's pretty much strictly a money maker.