DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
Yeah dude, you sure taught me a lesson
Not to say that isn't valid, but seriously... what are you, my mom?
However, i completely agree here.
Ayreon
- Thread starter razoredge
- Start date
Not to say that isn't valid, but seriously... what are you, my mom?
Xtopher
Creation's menace
I have never agreed on something more than i just did with you.
i love Ayreon's music. but i just hate it when i decide to sing along and turn up singing lines like
"Sail me away on the x-rays
Of quasars that died long-ago"
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
Heh... do you mean to tell me that you don't think those lyrics are the greatest stroke of genius of all time? Blasphemer!!!
Yeah dude, you sure taught me a lesson
Not to say that isn't valid, but seriously... what are you, my mom?
However, i completely agree here.
WTH!? I'm not trying to teach anyone a lesson...
I was only turning it around because I know that people have gotten upset many times before because they felt you were being an ass to them. Therefore, I thought it could help you better understand the misinterpretation that had occured.
@kenneth- I don't know what else to say except that from the things you have said in this thread you sure didn't seem to like Ayreon. Ok, all in all maybe you like them just a very little bit; however, all I remember you saying here is how Ayreon hides its shitty music behind an all-star cast of guest vocalists. You also of course mentioned that you can't stand the "cheesy" lyrics. Even if you do like Ayreon a little bit you sure as hell didn't let that be known here...
And on the note of "cheesy" lyrics. God forbid a "concept" album tell a story! "It is all cheesy like a "musical" or a "rock opera" or some shit!". What I really don't understand is why a lot of people cannot get over the cheesy lyrics of Ayreon yet most will get over the overly cheesy lyrics of Rhapsody (of Fire)?
On a lighter note I have gotten to hear 01011001 a few times now. A friend of mine got a copy of the promo a couple days ago.
Xtopher
Creation's menace
I just thought about how cool it would be if any of Ayreon's albums had any kind of lyrics. can u imagine russel allen singing dawn of a million souls going like "laaa la la laaa laaa laaaaaaa".
much better.
much better.
DoomsdayZach
The Professor was right
King Diamond writes concept albums without them coming off as cheesy. Queensryche penned Operation:Mindcrime and it wasn't cheesy. It isn't the fact that his lyrics tell a story so much as his actual writing sucks. Don't tell me you've never read a book or seen a movie and thought "man, that's a fucking cool idea but the execution is all wrong." That is an Ayreon album.
Again, i like some ayreon musically, but he feels the need to omit subtext completely, which makes for a really dull listen. Don't worry about interpreting the story for yourself, Arjen sure goes out of his way to be completely blunt and silly.
To me, this goes back to people being so damned polarized. You can't say "man, this guy writes some killer music but his lyrics are completely juvenile. they sound like a 3rd grader's story for creative writing". Because if the man is a genius in one regard, he must do everything right eh? And likewise, if someone criticises one aspect of the music, then said person must completely hate everything this person has ever touched.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
Oh fuck me for criticizing music. I suppose you, symphonyXjapan, are a massive Ayreon fan, and personally offended by my criticism of the music. So don't read the rest of this post.
My review: The 102 Minute EP
I want Arjen to do better. I expect more from him and his parade of all-stars than what he churns out, which is a double album with 3 or less passable tracks. (This comment goes for Universal Migrator, Human Equation, and 01011001). Their talents and his are wasted on this music. It's often-generic recycled prog riffage with amazing vocal performances... of the worst lyrics ever written.
The concept of 01011001 is a watered down, childish version of PoS - BE. Unlike BE, it doesn't address deeper concerns or present its message subtly and tactfully. Instead it bashes you over the head with it, and with lyrics that are so poorly conceived that they hardly seem serious at all. Also unlike BE, which was highly erratic in genre, 01011001 by stark contrast is nearly as same-ish as a Dragonforce Box Set. It won't offend anybody or spark controversy like BE, but then again it won't do much of anything.
For an album boasting the talents of so many musicians and vocalists, it is a severe letdown. There are no memorable riffs, and the vocals, although powerfully delivered, fall short because the words sung are so awful that the listener makes an effort not to understand them. The songs, though each is of epic length, have nothing of epic majesty to them, and appear to drag on far too long. For all the hoopla about guest vocalists and musicians (I heard nothing memorable on the album from Romeo or Sherinian), the hype was overrated in the greatest sense. None but Jonas Renkse really stand out. His performances, sprinkled throughout, and his grande finale (the only track on which he growls) are the only parts of the album that caught my interest. The rest of it was just passive music.
Arjen could have saved himself time and money and just condensed all of this down to an EP or a Single like Avantasia - Lost In Space. At least that was only 4 minutes long and got to the punch asap. It was listenable. This is the 2 hour version of that 4 minute track, ala Ayreon style. It should also be noted that there are no differences musically or conceptually between the two discs. The monotonous story trudges on as ever, on and on, on and on. While the discs may be labeled "Earth" and "Y" and the graphics represent Earth and a futuristic mechanized world, no delineation is made in the music.
Rating: 1 out of 5
My review: The 102 Minute EP
I want Arjen to do better. I expect more from him and his parade of all-stars than what he churns out, which is a double album with 3 or less passable tracks. (This comment goes for Universal Migrator, Human Equation, and 01011001). Their talents and his are wasted on this music. It's often-generic recycled prog riffage with amazing vocal performances... of the worst lyrics ever written.
The concept of 01011001 is a watered down, childish version of PoS - BE. Unlike BE, it doesn't address deeper concerns or present its message subtly and tactfully. Instead it bashes you over the head with it, and with lyrics that are so poorly conceived that they hardly seem serious at all. Also unlike BE, which was highly erratic in genre, 01011001 by stark contrast is nearly as same-ish as a Dragonforce Box Set. It won't offend anybody or spark controversy like BE, but then again it won't do much of anything.
For an album boasting the talents of so many musicians and vocalists, it is a severe letdown. There are no memorable riffs, and the vocals, although powerfully delivered, fall short because the words sung are so awful that the listener makes an effort not to understand them. The songs, though each is of epic length, have nothing of epic majesty to them, and appear to drag on far too long. For all the hoopla about guest vocalists and musicians (I heard nothing memorable on the album from Romeo or Sherinian), the hype was overrated in the greatest sense. None but Jonas Renkse really stand out. His performances, sprinkled throughout, and his grande finale (the only track on which he growls) are the only parts of the album that caught my interest. The rest of it was just passive music.
Arjen could have saved himself time and money and just condensed all of this down to an EP or a Single like Avantasia - Lost In Space. At least that was only 4 minutes long and got to the punch asap. It was listenable. This is the 2 hour version of that 4 minute track, ala Ayreon style. It should also be noted that there are no differences musically or conceptually between the two discs. The monotonous story trudges on as ever, on and on, on and on. While the discs may be labeled "Earth" and "Y" and the graphics represent Earth and a futuristic mechanized world, no delineation is made in the music.
Rating: 1 out of 5
noble savage
Member
I'm curious, how much of a role does Sherinian play in this album? Is it just a solo or two. Him and Thomas Bodin are the only reason I'm going to buy it. I hope they get a lot of room to shine.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
noble savage
Member
Damn, that's what I thought. I bought THE when it came out not expecting anything from it due to ITEC and FOTM pt1/2. Which I still don't like. However I really enjoy THE and go back to often. I hope this new one does the same for me or it will otherwise secure a permanent place on my CD shelf collecting dust like the others.
Ummm....did I ever say that I care that you criticize it? All I was pointing out is that from what you have said about Ayreon throughout this thread it shows that you do not like Ayreon. Then I got you and zach mixed up and admitted I made that mistake because it was actually you who was saying all those negative things. Then you suddenly get angry because you start saying that you don't totally hate Ayreon. All I was saying is that from all of your posts before that one, you did nothing but talk about how shitty Ayreon is. Ok, my impression was that you do not like Ayreon, that's fine with me. But then when I make the statement that it was you and not zach that had dislike for Ayreon you get all wound up claiming that you do kind of like them. You take something that I presumed about you, which was only based off of the things YOU said in this thread, and turn it into some kind of personal attack or something? Sorry for not predicting that after all the hate you showed towards Ayreon that you still actually kind of like them...
@your review: Ok you prefer a story to be more in the style of "BE", thats fine. Even if in your opinion you find the story style of "BE" to be a lot better you don't have the right to play off Ayreon's story style as childish. Geez, of all the people I have seen on this forum being called elitists you sure need to be pointed at here. Why should Ayreon's lyrics be subtle? It is a "rock opera" and not much different than a brodway musical. It has characters, in whom which say things in order to show that things in the story are going on.
I love PoS and absolutely love "BE"; however, not one part of the message was anything new to me. Gildenlow didn't bring about any new ideas rather he studied and took from ideas within other philisophical writings, the biggest influence being that of eastern philisophical ideas. Of course Arjen is only covering simple ideas such as over abundant technology, artificial intelligence, and what it means to be human; however, he is creative in the sense that he can show it to you in the "first person" which allows you to actaully experience events that occur in the story through great imagery. I have studied a lot of philosophy in school and find it great that Gildenlow delved deep into it to create "BE"; however, I do not think that all music should have to be that intracately woven in philosophy to be good. "BE" is more of just a kind of narration for the most part, giving the listener all sorts of different theories and ideas that slowly come together the more times you listen to it. In the end you pick up on all of the ideas yet there really is not much of a story except the mini sidestory of Mr. Money in the songs "Dea Pecuniae" and "Iter Impius", which are two of my favorite songs on the album. Ayreon music is more of the kind that takes you ALONG for the journey. I am not saying one style of storytelling is better than the other, only that neither should be classified as a lower form of the other. If an Ayreon story was to be presented on stage at a theater it would be more of a broadway musical whereas if it was "BE" it would be more of a performance of music with interpretive dance that delivers a deep message.
@your review: Ok you prefer a story to be more in the style of "BE", thats fine. Even if in your opinion you find the story style of "BE" to be a lot better you don't have the right to play off Ayreon's story style as childish. Geez, of all the people I have seen on this forum being called elitists you sure need to be pointed at here. Why should Ayreon's lyrics be subtle? It is a "rock opera" and not much different than a brodway musical. It has characters, in whom which say things in order to show that things in the story are going on.
I love PoS and absolutely love "BE"; however, not one part of the message was anything new to me. Gildenlow didn't bring about any new ideas rather he studied and took from ideas within other philisophical writings, the biggest influence being that of eastern philisophical ideas. Of course Arjen is only covering simple ideas such as over abundant technology, artificial intelligence, and what it means to be human; however, he is creative in the sense that he can show it to you in the "first person" which allows you to actaully experience events that occur in the story through great imagery. I have studied a lot of philosophy in school and find it great that Gildenlow delved deep into it to create "BE"; however, I do not think that all music should have to be that intracately woven in philosophy to be good. "BE" is more of just a kind of narration for the most part, giving the listener all sorts of different theories and ideas that slowly come together the more times you listen to it. In the end you pick up on all of the ideas yet there really is not much of a story except the mini sidestory of Mr. Money in the songs "Dea Pecuniae" and "Iter Impius", which are two of my favorite songs on the album. Ayreon music is more of the kind that takes you ALONG for the journey. I am not saying one style of storytelling is better than the other, only that neither should be classified as a lower form of the other. If an Ayreon story was to be presented on stage at a theater it would be more of a broadway musical whereas if it was "BE" it would be more of a performance of music with interpretive dance that delivers a deep message.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
lol.
1. I do prefer a story like BE. But wait, this is the same story. It just isn't told as well. That was what I was saying. I'm not even talking about preference of topic here, but you failed to read that apparently. For someone who "studied a lot of philosophy" you aren't the greatest reader.
2. Wow, you must not like thinking for yourself dude. Sorry for expecting a band to not write THIS IS THE PUNCHLINE all over their work. It's insulting to be spoonfed information. Or, in another context, it's demeaning and doesn't help the plot depth. This doesn't apply to normal albums, but concept albums face a higher scrutiny because they purport to have a concept. They must then, HAVE a concept and it must
not suck or be told in a way that is weakly expressed.
3. Lol again. BE isn't even that deep philosophically. But it sure as fuck is, when compared with something like 01011001. Music doesn't have to be deep. I for one think it's better when it is, but I am giving my critique based on the "hype" propagated by Ayreon fans and Arjen himself. If he promises, then I contend to ensure delivery or else list these shortcomings.
4. 01011001 wouldn't survive on Broadway because its story is too blatant, too underdeveloped, and too unfocused to actually say much of anything.
But I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it. Hope you keep enjoying it. (You might want to stay away from the books in my signature, given your comments.)
1. I do prefer a story like BE. But wait, this is the same story. It just isn't told as well. That was what I was saying. I'm not even talking about preference of topic here, but you failed to read that apparently. For someone who "studied a lot of philosophy" you aren't the greatest reader.
2. Wow, you must not like thinking for yourself dude. Sorry for expecting a band to not write THIS IS THE PUNCHLINE all over their work. It's insulting to be spoonfed information. Or, in another context, it's demeaning and doesn't help the plot depth. This doesn't apply to normal albums, but concept albums face a higher scrutiny because they purport to have a concept. They must then, HAVE a concept and it must
not suck or be told in a way that is weakly expressed.
3. Lol again. BE isn't even that deep philosophically. But it sure as fuck is, when compared with something like 01011001. Music doesn't have to be deep. I for one think it's better when it is, but I am giving my critique based on the "hype" propagated by Ayreon fans and Arjen himself. If he promises, then I contend to ensure delivery or else list these shortcomings.
4. 01011001 wouldn't survive on Broadway because its story is too blatant, too underdeveloped, and too unfocused to actually say much of anything.
But I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it. Hope you keep enjoying it. (You might want to stay away from the books in my signature, given your comments.)
lol....I would be the last person in this world to not think for themself! You are once again being elitist here saying that a concept story must require some kind of deep meditative thought to be good. Also, I don't recall myself talking about preference of topic either rather I was talking about preference of story style. What I was saying was that neither style of storytelling is better than the other except in a person's opinion, which you made clear that Ayreon's style is inferior at a level higher than your own opinion. I feel like I am repeating myself, are you sure I am the one here who is the bad reader?
Oh, and I find it sad that you are so uncomfortable with yourself that you feel insulted being "spoonfed" information. Yes, Arjen is doing this because he thinks everyone else in the world are retards with no attention span, you caught him! Ayreon lyrics are a little cheesy but that is kind of the purpose, Ayreon albums are really more for "fun" and not meant to enlighten the world to the ultimate truth of the universe. I mean come on, Arjen is a huge fan of old cheesy sci-fi movies and shows, what do you expect really?
Next, there is a little similarity between the storis of the two albums, but really not much. It is really only the use of the idea that technology leads humanity to a tragic end that is similar between the two. Even that one similar idea is used a bit differently between the two albums. In "BE", "god" is no more than a human so technologically advanced he/she has the power to create other humans to study their existence in order to try and figure out the truth of the world and existence. It is centered around Earth being a monural macrocosim of its own. In the story presented in Ayreon, there are multiple planets and dimensions which make a center focal planet no more than a microcosm. The biggest difference is that with "BE" there are a LOT of other topics being discussed than just the advance of technology. Theories in linguistics, environmental humanities, and feminism among other things. You may have to delve deeper in "BE" to find these things but they along with other things are all there. For someone who likes things that require him to think for himself you sure didn't pick up on at least half of the message presented on the album!
Yes, I am enjoying 01011001 very much, thank you! It is so nice that I can be comfortable enough with myself that I can enjoy "spoonfed" entertainment while still maintaining my idealistic level of personality.
Oh, and don't forget, you are the best person here dude! We can't conted with your ultimate knowledge
Oh, and I find it sad that you are so uncomfortable with yourself that you feel insulted being "spoonfed" information. Yes, Arjen is doing this because he thinks everyone else in the world are retards with no attention span, you caught him! Ayreon lyrics are a little cheesy but that is kind of the purpose, Ayreon albums are really more for "fun" and not meant to enlighten the world to the ultimate truth of the universe. I mean come on, Arjen is a huge fan of old cheesy sci-fi movies and shows, what do you expect really?
Next, there is a little similarity between the storis of the two albums, but really not much. It is really only the use of the idea that technology leads humanity to a tragic end that is similar between the two. Even that one similar idea is used a bit differently between the two albums. In "BE", "god" is no more than a human so technologically advanced he/she has the power to create other humans to study their existence in order to try and figure out the truth of the world and existence. It is centered around Earth being a monural macrocosim of its own. In the story presented in Ayreon, there are multiple planets and dimensions which make a center focal planet no more than a microcosm. The biggest difference is that with "BE" there are a LOT of other topics being discussed than just the advance of technology. Theories in linguistics, environmental humanities, and feminism among other things. You may have to delve deeper in "BE" to find these things but they along with other things are all there. For someone who likes things that require him to think for himself you sure didn't pick up on at least half of the message presented on the album!
Yes, I am enjoying 01011001 very much, thank you! It is so nice that I can be comfortable enough with myself that I can enjoy "spoonfed" entertainment while still maintaining my idealistic level of personality.
Oh, and don't forget, you are the best person here dude! We can't conted with your ultimate knowledge
Snowmaker
GO BLUE!!
ABQShredHead
©1970
Kenneth R.
Cináed
You shouldn't have. Die hards are defending 01011001's honor, despite glaring issues. And as usual, they label me, the critic, as a "h8ter" when I have any negative things to say about their glorious favorite new album. They seem to forget to read the positive things I write.
symphonyXjapan: cool. glad you feel your opinion is now validated.
symphonyXjapan: cool. glad you feel your opinion is now validated.
Burnout
Faith Puppeteer
So, how shallow are we talking? Does it make The Human Equation look like the Marianas Trench?
I think Arjen is a great musician and I really dig some of his work, but his lyrics tend to be painfully simplistic a great deal of the time.
I think Arjen is a great musician and I really dig some of his work, but his lyrics tend to be painfully simplistic a great deal of the time.
Kenneth R.
Cináed
progmetaldan
Member
I haven't heard it yet, but despite your reviews I'm going to listen and make my own opinion on it, as I know there's lots of albums that many here don't like that I do...
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