Bullshit

[entanglement]

This is a part philosophical question so I wasn't sure where to put it.. I hope this isn't a bad decision.

I was just talking to a friend about how we start bullshitting about the most basic of truths to younglings right off the bat... about how 'where babies come from' is never truthfully answered and how excuses are made to them when grandmother dies. Isn't that their very first encounter with the okayness of bending truth for convenience?

Is it proper to do so by training them with stories that they eventually find to have been lies back then? Would a kid grow up to be a balanced individual if he was told about sex, and early sex and its dangers and what not when he grows the curiosity for it? ..About death and about the nonexistence of god and a heaven or hell and the very pointlessness of the journey of life? How bad can the consequences of bluntness be in raising up a child?

 

[Vegard Pompey]

I hate children. I'd probably tell them the ugliest stuff imaginable and then throw them in a huge fire. Obviously I don't know how to best raise them.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Interesting thread.

I don't see any great harm in telling some bullshit to kids. It was fun to believe in Santa Claus when I was little, and some day you will figure out the truth anyway (as well as maybe learning a good lesson about taking what people say for granted). Religion should of course not be presented as truth to a child. I think it's okay for a parent to be like "this is what I believe" and "you can come to church with me if you want", but expecting or demanding that they be religious is wrong.

I'm not sure how a kid would handle explicit explanation of sexual activity. It might just encourage them to do stupid shit at a time when it's not really right for them to be thinking about it. On the other hand, though, not telling them explicitly about it can result in them getting distorted information about it from their friends (which probably happens in most cases) and then possibly doing even stupider shit because of that misinformation. And at this point in history, information is so widely distributed and accessible that it's probably best just to be honest with kids about sex and not treat it like something they shouldn't learn about.

 

[Dak]

I would say truth across the board is the best policy, Sex, Santa Claus, or otherwise. The amount of detail, however, is arguable.

 

[Heat Mizer]

Childrens minds are not developed enough to process and understand information such as sex or even death.

And as far as total truth. Then that would mean we'd completely eliminate Santa, Easter Bunny etc.

With all the joy and happiness these bring children. Why would you want to eliminate them?

 

[viewerfromnihil]

for the record, children can understand death, children are just ridiculously sheltered these days

 

[~Neurotica]

Was thinking about something like that today. I'm sure that you should start telling kids how things really are right when they are ready to it, and usually they are ready much earlier than most of parents think. So I guess that kids should start realizing what death is pretty early, - like a natural thing, - because death is a natural thing. As for the topic of sex - pretty much the same.
So the faster they'll get used to that stuff - the better.
Just don't hurry to tell them that Santa doesn't exist (sorry if I've broken someone's hopes).

 

[mutantllama]

Santa
Eating your cookies and leaving shit in your toilet since Jesus was born.

 

[Dak]

Childrens minds are not developed enough to process and understand information such as sex or even death.

And as far as total truth. Then that would mean we'd completely eliminate Santa, Easter Bunny etc.

With all the joy and happiness these bring children. Why would you want to eliminate them?

I do believe there are better ways to bring happiness than a lie. As far as sex and death goes, you don't have to break out charts and pictures . Simple explanations can do until certain ages are reached.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I do believe there are better ways to bring happiness than a lie.

Yeah, but at an age when your imagination is so strong and you're so prone to 'magical' thoughts anyway, why not play on those? It can make childhood a more interesting experience.

edit: I'm not saying parents should lie to their kids as the norm, but I think it's possible for it to have a positive effect.

 

[AchrisK]

I think you need to treat each situation as unique.

Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny etc: Do what you want. I don't think that many of us were all that resentful or damaged by believing in those things, and then finding out it was fake. It's just fun.

Death: I was not aware that people lied to their children about people dying. I think truth is the best policy here. Very young children forget a lot of their early childhood experiences, older children have the capacity to understand things.

Sex: This is something I feel should be handled in stages, because that is how it becomes relevant to kids. I believe strongly in sheltering children from sexually explicit and erotic type material. Obviously as they age and mature, you need to be less protective, because they become more mature and you can't keep them from everything anyways. I definitely screened movies my son saw more for sex than I did for violence and cussing. As for telling them the truth about sex, I talked to my son when he was like in 5th grade. they were gonna have a basic sex ed class at school, but I wanted to talk to him first. He didn't end up going to the class, but we had a talk. I talked to him again later about more stuff, and will probably talk more at some point. I think it's pretty well documented that children exposed to explicit materials and behaviors when they are young tend to be more profoundly, and negatively affected by it.

Religion: The thing about this is that people believe that their religion is the truth, so they don't see a problem with teaching it to their kids as truth. If I really believe Christianity, why would I present it as anything other than truth? Now as with all things, as a child matures they can and should make more and more decisions for themselves. I do not believe children should have their beliefs dictated to them, but that doesn't mean I don't live according to what I believe.

 

[~Neurotica]

Yeah, but at an age when your imagination is so strong and you're so prone to 'magical' thoughts anyway, why not play on those? It can make childhood a more interesting experience.

Pedophile.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I think it's pretty well documented that children exposed to explicit materials and behaviors when they are young tend to be more profoundly, and negatively affected by it.

That all depends on how the information is presented. If it comes in the form of a hardcord porn video, then sure it might have a negative influence on a kid. But if it's in a mature form like a reference book or a class, I think it's fine as long as the kid can fully understand what's being discussed. Not that it's my place to judge, but I don't see why you were reluctant to let your son go to a sex ed class.

Religion: The thing about this is that people believe that their religion is the truth, so they don't see a problem with teaching it to their kids as truth. If I really believe Christianity, why would I present it as anything other than truth? Now as with all things, as a child matures they can and should make more and more decisions for themselves. I do not believe children should have their beliefs dictated to them, but that doesn't mean I don't live according to what I believe.

Yeah, but any religious person of reasonable intelligence is well aware that there is controversy behind their beliefs, and that to some extent they're believing things without the kind of evidence that's typically expected for a belief. I think it's important to communicate that to a kid.

 

[cookiecutter]

I think things like Santa are just fun and it doesn't matter that kids are lied to about them

My parents were frank to me about sex and death which I think is better.

As for religion I agree with AchrisK (never thought I'd say that ) in that a parent should not force their beliefs on the child. The only thing you can do is live according to your beliefs and be honest with your child.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

I think things like Santa are just fun and it doesn't matter that kids are lied to about them

My parents were frank to me about sex and death which I think is better.

As for religion I agree with AchrisK (never thought I'd say that ) in that a parent should not force their beliefs on the child. The only thing you can do is live according to your beliefs and be honest with your child.

this

 

[AchrisK]

That all depends on how the information is presented. If it comes in the form of a hardcord porn video, then sure it might have a negative influence on a kid. But if it's in a mature form like a reference book or a class, I think it's fine as long as the kid can fully understand what's being discussed. Not that it's my place to judge, but I don't see why you were reluctant to let your son go to a sex ed class.

I agree with you, and actually I wasn't reluctant. We let him make the choice, and he didn't seem to want to go. They offered an alternative activity, so he just went to that.

Yeah, but any religious person of reasonable intelligence is well aware that there is controversy behind their beliefs, and that to some extent they're believing things without the kind of evidence that's typically expected for a belief. I think it's important to communicate that to a kid.

Actually I think you misunderstand spiritual beliefs. Christians are not constantly on the edge of disbelief because we know that Christianity fails to meet the proofs as defined in the scientific method. While my beliefs may be supported by experience, information and logic, those things are not what brought me to my beliefs. I believe that spiritual factors are much more involved in the process of belief than any external evidences. Faith in spiritual matters is not scientific and cannot be explained or measured by science. I have no problem telling my kid that God is unprovable.

 

[Black Friday]

It wasn't that way for me because I knew something was wrong when I kept on asking "Why?" and my parents couldn't come up with a good answer. Then I asked the kids at my school and they told me all about it.

 

[Dak]

Is THAT much fun generated believing in mythical creatures, or is it the gifts that actually generate it? I would venture to say bunnies and fat elves are unnecessary.
I don't even celebrate those holidays anymore so maybe my opinion is a little biased. I find the entire hoopla surrounding 99% of holidays stupid and boorish.

 

[Heat Mizer]

You must have a real happy and joyful life.

 

[Dak]

Actually, I am quite happy. I don't need superficial commercial driven bullshit to facilitate a feeling of peace and well-being.